People who hate the speed cameras... (tickets, rated, money)

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by Finger Laker

however access to the court system, being able to defend myself against a person, having a voice in my government, etc are a part of my basic freedoms

I hear this reason all the time but let's be honest, if you are going to challenge a police officer's citation in a court of law, you will lose every time. The only way you will ever win a challenge is if the officer fails to show up and they never do because they are rarely challenged. The judge always sides with them.

I don't mind speed cameras as long as the freeways they are monitoring are set to reasonable limits. I had a real problem when they dropped the speed limit to 55 just to catch more speeders but when it was set at 65, that was fine. Do we really need to drive 80 mph on the freeway, is 76 not good enough?

Yes, I agree their intent was to make money and enforce safety but the reality is people do drive safer and there are less accidents. And I would much rather have these cameras than corrupt police officers who pull people over to make their quota or get commission particularly when it's for something trivial. And most of you haven't lived in an area where this type of activity occurs but trust me, that is far worse than speed cameras. I lived in Oklahoma and Texas briefly and the highway patrol was downright scary! You would get pulled over for anything...and I mean anything. My favorites were "following a car too closely", "not making a complete stop at the stop sign because your wheels didn't completely stop" "Going 7 over the speed limit" "making an illegal left turn" Yeah, that happened a lot over there particularly at the end of the month. At least, these vans and cameras are objective, you speed you get a ticket!

[ourrights1]

These Photo Cameras are as close to being a Scam as anything Law Enforcement has ever done to easily raise Funds.

What's the definition of a Scambtaining money by means of deception including fake personalities, fake photos, fake template letters, non-existent addresses and phone numbers, ...

Have you ever heard of the term Calibration...
In case you don't know what that means I will define it for:
Calibration is the validation of specific measurement techniques and equipment.


By not having the right to challenge the calibration of these machines makes this nothing more than a Scam to make easy money and that's why I'm against any kind of Speed Trap that can't be challenged in a Court of Law.

Now Scottsdale, AZ has put one of these things on the left turn lane at Shea and Scottsdale Rd., and I would photoed on what I believed to be a yellow light that turned red while I was still in the intersection. Even as I looked at their Photo, you could easily see that the back of my car was cross the cross walk (which means that I was technically in the enter.

You Sir shouldn't be so willing to give up your rights to question what this is really about.

Signed,
Ourrights1

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

I've got a question...

If each speed camera was replaced by a live police officer, would you be ok with that? Do you really feel that it's unfair that you can't fight the ticket in court?

This is just me...but I have a feeling people use that excuse because they know the city could never deploy that many cops to just traffic duty, and even if they do, they know that officers let you slide every now and then, but that still doesn't change the fact that you were speeding. I feel I can speak on this because I've had literally 15+ speeding tickets in my years of driving...and I've been let off quite a few times, but the times I haven't, I've never once been able to win in court aside from the office not showing up on one occasion.

I'm not trying to justify the cameras, I think they are a pain in the ass...but I do think it's 100% the driver's fault. I mean it's simple, if you don't go over 10 MPH above the speed limit, then you won't get caught. Pretty cut and dry. It's not like they don't give you any leeway, they give about a 20% above the limit leeway. (And I don't believe when people say they got caught going 7 MPH...I'd have to see the citation to believe that. Going by your own judgment of course you're going to be bias)

[joninaz]

I see that Redflex, one of the two major ticket companies in the state, gets $35.50 for each $171 ticket they issue in Tempe.

But they also get $88 of the driving school fee, if an accused person chooses that route instead of fighting the ticket. Reflex doesn't run or manage the driving schools, so it's an interesting twist. I find it wrong that a for-profit company gets to accuse one of a crime, which is one core issue worthy of debate. But how are they also profiting in the alternative routes offered by the courts?

That's not a bad gig for them... issue tickets and profit. Get even more money if people go through a court approved process to avoid the ticket... without having to do a thing. Brilliant!

[Danno3314]

Originally Posted by ourrights1

Now Scottsdale, AZ has put one of these things on the left turn lane at Shea and Scottsdale Rd., and I would photoed on what I believed to be a yellow light that turned red while I was still in the intersection. Even as I looked at their Photo, you could easily see that the back of my car was cross the cross walk (which means that I was technically in the enter.

Just so you know, in AZ they use the curb to draw an imaginary line that determines where the intersection starts.....so, if your vehicle breaks that imaginary line after the light has turned red, that's considered running a red light. As long as your in the intersection before it turns red, your OK. The crosswalk is before the imaginary line so, depending where the curb is on the street you're about to cross (or turn onto), that imaginary line could be several feet beyond the crosswalk.

Speaking of calibration though, the speed cameras that are stationary use sensors in the road. It uses time it takes you to pass through two sensors to calculate your speed. The sensors need to be close together so that you can't try to brake at the last minute or change lanes to avoid getting a ticket (if you're speeding). You can see where they are when you pass over them and they're very close together (inches not even feet from what I could see). Speed is calculated by dividing the distance traveled by the time traveled. That means the sensors would need to record your time down to the thousandth if not ten thousandth of a second to accurately use it to divide the distance between the sensors to determine your speed. In AZ it's 110+ degrees in the summer, the black asphalt has much higher than that. It's hard to believe those sensors buried in the road stay calibrated the way they need to be, with that kind of heat.

[Wyvrex]

Along with the reasons psoted here about how they not only fail to increase safety, but are actually a detriment to safety, I beleive these kinds of automated law enforcement are a slippery slope.

You know those Car breathalyzer things convicted DUI people have to get installed? Why dont we put them in all cars right? If you don't drink and drive you wont mind right?

We could also put GPS, and little "black boxes" on all cars that automatically report if you are going over the speed limit. If you dont speed its not a problem right?

Yes i know these are all pretty extreme scenarios, however i use them to prove a point, when does it start becoming invasion of privacy? The argument that only speeders hate the cameras is false, speeders do hate them but so do people who enjoy their liberties.

[movin'on]

I LIKE the speed cameras. They save lives. The only people who have an issue with these cameras are LIKELY the ones with the SKID MARKS who went over the overpasses. Morons!!!! Hence, my belief, the average IQ here is definitely UNDER 100.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

I hear this reason all the time but let's be honest, if you are going to challenge a police officer's citation in a court of law, you will lose every time. The only way you will ever win a challenge is if the officer fails to show up and they never do because they are rarely challenged. The judge always sides with them.

Where do you get this stuff? I've beaten several tickets in court by pointing out how the cop was wrong, sometimes with photos of the scene and once by just saying, "Your honor, I respectfully disagree with everything he just said." I've twice watched the judge reprimand the cop for not being prepared for court and then tell me to have a nice day. I've never ever gone to court and gotten less than a reduced fine for the effort, often a full dismissal. But hey, if you're willing to hand your money over to the state so easily, I'm sure they'll appreciate it. I make them work for it.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Where do you get this stuff? I've beaten several tickets in court by pointing out how the cop was wrong, sometimes with photos of the scene and once by just saying, "Your honor, I respectfully disagree with everything he just said." I've twice watched the judge reprimand the cop for not being prepared for court and then tell me to have a nice day. I've never ever gone to court and gotten less than a reduced fine for the effort, often a full dismissal. But hey, if you're willing to hand your money over to the state so easily, I'm sure they'll appreciate it. I make them work for it.

Where do you get your stuff? Did you have a video camera in your car that taped your speedometer as you were in the process of being pulled over? Most of the things an officer can ticket you for comes down to your word versus the officer's and in these situations the judge almost always sides with the officer. I don't know how you got pictures or evidence but for the rest of the 99% of us, we were focused on driving and didn't have a camera crew taping evidence of us. I challenged two tickets in court, one in Tempe and one in Scottsdale. In both situations, the judge didn't give me the time of day, it was over in a few minutes. And none of the people contesting their tickets won that day either. There was no drama and the judges were not rude, but it was fairly obvious it was a machine of sorts. The judge saw a large volume of cases and quickly presided over each one. I'm sorry but you are not going to convince me that being able to contest a ticket in court really provides one with an advantage versus a camera ticket because the results were the same. They are going to get their money either way. At least with cameras, you have less cops on the road that start pulling people over at the end of the month to meet a quota.

[click]

OK, I just have to say this. I got a ticket right before I was leaving Arizona. It was at the Union Hills intersection up on the West Valley. It has two turning lanes, I being on the righthand one. The problem is, once you make the turn, the left hand turning lane has to quickly get over the right lane to make it on to the 101 as the entrance is right on the next corner which isn't too far up ahead. So, I was probably the 7th in line or the last to make the turn. When I went into the turn it was clearly green from both the video online which you can view and the four b/w photos they send to you in the mail with your summons. It was while in the box, making that turn, that the guy, clearly in front of me and the car in front of him, stopped because the left hand turners wanted to get in the righthand lane to enter the 101. I had to stop along with the other cars. You can't jump over them. While in the middle of the road, you see the arrow turn red. We called the Peoria Municipal Court and they said that there was nothing that could be done, that a class is mandatory to take, that you would have to pay the fine if you decide to plead guilty and take the course. I just received the paperwork in the mail here in NY, and the course is almost $300, 5 hours long, I have to then take a test in front of a notary. My question is, short of being psychic, how does one know that half way into making your turn, how can you tell if the cars are going to stop, if there isn't enough time, if someone is going to cross the street halting traffic etc. I don't know how to avoid this situation from even occuring in the future and the woman on the phone whom we spoke to agreed with us with no resolution. She said if we fight it we have a $200+ fine on top of this. Am I crazy or what? I love Arizona, but everyone I tell this too, says this is absolutely nuts. The first thing the NYer's I speak to say, is just pay the fine and forget the class, which isn't even an option in Arizona. Plus, I just took a course here to reduce our crazy NY insurance rates with our whole family, which they said can't count cause it was taken just a few months before this summons! I feel like I am in between a rock and a hard place........................

[click]

Sorry, but I just also wanted to say, I feel having a real cop there to talk to would have helped in this situation. I am in my fifties, not a reckless person, haven't had a ticket for 30 years and then only one, for a parking violation!