Philadelphia 2035 (Industry, Penn: student loan, layoffs, bankrupt)

[rotodome]

Originally Posted by Marius Pontmercy

Why would you take a ferry from Philly to NJ? There are several bridges and a rail link (PATCO). In fact, the bridges and bridge line were what put the ferries out of business in the 1930s. New York only manages to keep theirs because of huge cross-river traffic that can't be handled by inadequate infrastructure: the river tunnels and bridges are at capacity, Philly's are not.

I agree, and the ferries between Manhattan and Brooklyn (only since someone mentioned that) are actually very underused, despite all the recent development in Greenpoint, mainly because there are other more convenient options. The ferries in NYC that get the most use are the ones that go across the hudson to jersey (as the tunnels under the hudson remain at capacity - nice going Chris Christie!), and the staten island ferry, which is free as a concession to the fact that there is no subway service to SI, and no pedestrian path across the Verrazano.

[drive carephilly]

Originally Posted by rotodome

I agree, and the ferries between Manhattan and Brooklyn (only since someone mentioned that) are actually very underused, despite all the recent development in Greenpoint, mainly because there are other more convenient options. The ferries in NYC that get the most use are the ones that go across the hudson to jersey (as the tunnels under the hudson remain at capacity - nice going Chris Christie!), and the staten island ferry, which is free as a concession to the fact that there is no subway service to SI, and no pedestrian path across the Verrazano.

First, the development in Greenpoint hasn't been on the waterfront. Second, the ferry in Greenpoint doesn't go to Manhattan - it goes to other points in Brooklyn/Queens.

The Hudson River ferries being busy has nothing to do with the cancelled ARC project - which wouldn't have had a stop on the NJ waterfront anyway. Those ferries are busy because they depart from locations that don't offer good transit options to Lower Manhattan, Midtown and the East Side.

Again, the NY Waterway Ferry is basically a transit service where most of the riders don't pay much attention to the schedule because the boats run frequently and the riders either walk up or transfer from a bus or train. You couldn't do that here. Not enough people live near the rivers and there aren't enough jobs or destinations near the river to support anything more than a commuter schedule.

For instance - Hoboken to the WFC ferry departs every 10 minutes during rush hour and every 20-30 minutes off-peak. A one way fare is $6. A monthly pass is $196. That won't work anywhere in Philadelphia . . . yet.

NY Waterway's ferry from Belford, NJ to Wall St. departs every 30 minutes during rush hour and has no departures between 9:30am and 3:30pm. A one way ticket is $21. A monthly pass is $635. No one in Philly is going to pay that kind of money but then, no one is suggesting a 20 mile ferry ride either. The distances here are, at the furthest, half that.

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by Summersm343

Originally thought to have been only 100 feet, the developers added more apartments to the project raising the floor height to 130 feet.

Quote:
Developer Ensemble Real Estate has amended its original plan for Marina View Towers - a residential project at 230 N. Columbus Avenue, near the Benjamin Franklin Bridge – by adding more units, increasing the ground-floor retail space and slightly reducing the amount of parking.There have also been some small massing and color changes to the facade of the building, but the footprint remains the same, as does the height of 130 feet at the tallest point.

The number of apartments has grown from 180 to 296. Ensemble is adding more studio apartments based on market research


Final Render


Article from PlanPhilly
http://planphilly.com/news/notebook/...an-development

While not perfect appears improved from the render. This area (based on the other approvals as well)could see some pretty dramatic changes I just hope they do something with DE asthetically to make it more walker friendly

This new place is actually not bad if one wants to walk into say Old City

[phillies2011]

Originally Posted by drive carephilly

That's not it at all. The ferries exist in NYC because they're a huge time savings over the alternatives . . . because they travel between points where rail or subway service is either non-existent or circuitous.

I used to commute from Allenhurst, NJ to Pier 11/Wall St. I drove 20 minutes to the ferry in Highlands then the ride was 35 minutes across the bay and dropped me off a block from my office. My alternative was a 5 minute walk to the train, an hour ride to Newark, transfer to the sardine can known as the PATH for a 30 minute ride, then a 10 minute walk to my office. No thanks.

It's also not about taking a ferry from Philly to Camden to see a concert. It's about taking a ferry from NJ to Philly to get to work. There are plenty of places - especially on the NJ side - that are nowhere near PATCO and where people who want to get into the city have to drive out of their way to get to a PATCO station. The alternative is bridge traffic, a toll, then more traffic in the city, then paying for parking.

PATCO is a gem in the Greater Philadelphia rail network. It's great if your destination is within 4 or 5 blocks of one of the stations. If you work west of 19th St., as many people do, PATCO is not convenient. Transferring to SEPTA gets expensive and time consuming when you have to do it everyday.

I don't get it? How would a ferry take someone past 19th street? For that matter how would a ferry take someone further west than the banks of the delaware? I don't see how a ferry would solve anyone's commute issues. Simply doesn't make sense.

[phillies2011]

Originally Posted by Summersm343

Originally thought to have been only 100 feet, the developers added more apartments to the project raising the floor height to 130 feet.

Quote:
Developer Ensemble Real Estate has amended its original plan for Marina View Towers - a residential project at 230 N. Columbus Avenue, near the Benjamin Franklin Bridge – by adding more units, increasing the ground-floor retail space and slightly reducing the amount of parking.There have also been some small massing and color changes to the facade of the building, but the footprint remains the same, as does the height of 130 feet at the tallest point.

The number of apartments has grown from 180 to 296. Ensemble is adding more studio apartments based on market research


Final Render


Article from PlanPhilly
http://planphilly.com/news/notebook/...an-development

don't love it, but none the less a HUGE improvement over the previous one. Less parking, more groundfloor retail... and it looks better. What's not to like?

[rotodome]

Originally Posted by drive carephilly

First, the development in Greenpoint hasn't been on the waterfront. Second, the ferry in Greenpoint doesn't go to Manhattan - it goes to other points in Brooklyn/Queens.

The East River Ferry absolutely goes to Manhattan, it just makes stops first.

And there has been tons of waterfront development right around the southern of the two ferry stops in Greenpoint (though they may be selling that as "North Williamsburg" at this point - lol), and lots more planned/ongoing development near the northern stop. But within a few blocks from the waterfront there has been huge amounts of development and population gain throughout Greenpoint & North Brooklyn over the past 15 years, and greatly increased numbers of commuters who have jammed the L train, and forced changes to the G train(which can only help so much, as it doesn't go into Manhattan).
I mentioned Greenpoint in particular up there because it has the two ferry stops, but is also underserved by commuter-friendly rail, and is not so convenient to a bridge crossing, which are things that Greenpointers always whine about, so you'd think they in particular would embrace an alternative like the ferry with gusto. That was the whole rationale behind the new East River Ferry.
But despite that whining, and all the hoopla when it opened, the ferry has not been especially embraced by the neighborhood as of yet for whatever reason. I personally don't know a single person who commutes using it.
Maybe if more people discover it that will change (as it's still relatively new). Or maybe it's just that the fares are too high (though they are comparable to the MTA express buses). Or maybe it's that many people in NY (esp newcomers) are just a bit weird about public-transit-that-is-not-the-subway. Or maybe it's that people are more likely to take PT that will get them beyond the waterfront & closer to their end destination. Who knows?

[drive carephilly]

Originally Posted by phillies2011

I don't get it? How would a ferry take someone past 19th street? For that matter how would a ferry take someone further west than the banks of the delaware?

You've heard of the Schuylkill?

There's another thread on this topic.

[RightonWalnut]

News on the Canal Street Entertainment District from CoreRealty... the Planning Commission seems to be on board with this one as well

Core Realty presents plan to re-use the former Ajax Metal Works building as a music venue, bowling alley and restaurant | PlanPhilly: Planning Philadelphia's Future

[Marius Pontmercy]

Originally Posted by drive carephilly

You've heard of the Schuylkill?

There's another thread on this topic.

That would be terribly circuitous: down the Delaware, around League Island and the Navy Yard, then up the Schuylkill (which is quite windy) past the refineries, to Center City. Not to mention you'd be dodging barge traffic on the lower Schuylkill which is rather narrow, and you probably couldn't go above Spring Garden Street because of the dam.

[drive carephilly]

Originally Posted by Marius Pontmercy

That would be terribly circuitous: down the Delaware, around League Island and the Navy Yard, then up the Schuylkill (which is quite windy) past the refineries, to Center City. Not to mention you'd be dodging barge traffic on the lower Schuylkill which is rather narrow, and you probably couldn't go above Spring Garden Street because of the dam.

this is the wrong thread.

you already know where the other thread is because you've already posted there
Philadelphia area ferry service