Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I am a permanent remote worker but my "office" is on Market Street. I've never been there and I don't really have a reason to. But I did get word that because my employer had a vaccination requirement, we do have to nor will we require masks in the office. Still stinks for the hospitality industry but at least it is BAU work my employer.
Okay, I'm just going to say it. At this point, who cares if people under age 60 who are otherwise healthy get Covid?
I do, because healthy people under 60 can and do still die and suffer long-term complications from COVID, and they’re capable of spreading the disease to older and less healthy people more likely to die and experience complications.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyers Girl
With Omicron a few months ago, nearly everybody on the planet got it, vaccination status be damned.
And the vaccinated by and large fared far better than the un-vaccinated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyers Girl
And each strain is weaker in intensity than the last.
That’s generally true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyers Girl
It's not the case count going up that is the problem, it's whether or not our healthcare system is going to be stressed.
One is a precursor to the other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyers Girl
And it's just not happening anymore. People get sick, stay at home, and recover. Kinda like with any other airborne, respiratory virus out there.
The variants are generally weaker, more people are fully vaccinated and boosted, and we’ve also gotten far better at treatment. It is still orders of magnitude more serious than illnesses like the flu. ERs are far less crowded with COVID patients, but they’re far from empty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyers Girl
The mask mandate is pure political theater and does nothing to actually address transmission of this airborne virus.
/rant
Masks work. That’s a well-established, scientific fact. Whether reimposing the mask mandate now across-the-board is proportional to the state of the pandemic is a different issue. I have mixed feelings about it. I’m definitely frustrated, but I’m outraged far more at people who continue to refuse the vaccine far more than I am at the powers that be in the city.
I do, because healthy people under 60 can and do still die and suffer long-term complications from COVID, and they’re capable of spreading the disease to older and less healthy people more likely to die and experience complications.
And the vaccinated by and large fared far better than the un-vaccinated.
That’s generally true.
One is a precursor to the other.
The variants are generally weaker, more people are fully vaccinated and boosted, and we’ve also gotten far better at treatment. It is still orders of magnitude more serious than illnesses like the flu. ERs are far less crowded with COVID patients, but they’re far from empty.
Masks work. That’s a well-established, scientific fact. Whether reimposing the mask mandate now across-the-board is proportional to the state of the pandemic is a different issue. I have mixed feelings about it. I’m definitely frustrated, but I’m outraged far more at people who continue to refuse the vaccine far more than I am at the powers that be in the city.
You have a very vested interest in wanting to believe what you want to believe.
I could go through every point but I doubt it's worth my time. It's clear that people have dug into the sand with their views and are unwilling to budge.
But I will point out that while masks do work - under very specific conditions involving wearing the *right* kind of mask and wearing it *correctly* and in the *right* environment, the flimsy cloth and paper masks most people wear and still wear - provide next to no benefit. And people don't wear masks where it would be most useful due to prolonged exposure - socializing with family and friends, while wearing masks at the supermarket is next to useless given the pattern of movement.
When you babble about *well-established, scientific fact* you'd better have a full understanding of a) what science is, and b) how you are applying it, and c) what facts mean, and d) that "facts" =/= my personal opinion glanced from looking at a headline in my favorite newspaper or listening to my favorite news anchor. Probably the greatest lasting consequence of COVID, other than the deaths, has been the politicization of science by both political factions.
As a dual citizen with Britain I rely on Britain and the EU for most of the COVID news and it's amazing how different it is over there compared to the US.
You have a very vested interest in wanting to believe what you want to believe.
It’s not a question of what I do or don’t want to believe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DXBtoFL
I could go through every point but I doubt it's worth my time. It's clear that people have dug into the sand with their views and are unwilling to budge.
The feeling’s mutual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DXBtoFL
But I will point out that while masks do work - under very specific conditions involving wearing the *right* kind of mask and wearing it *correctly* and in the *right* environment, the flimsy cloth and paper masks most people wear and still wear - provide next to no benefit. And people don't wear masks where it would be most useful due to prolonged exposure - socializing with family and friends, while wearing masks at the supermarket is next to useless given the pattern of movement.
Masks do work. Different kinds have different levels of benefits, and no mask is absolutely perfect. The problem is (to quote the great Rachel Levine) that my mask protects you, and your mask protects me. So when only some people play by the rules, masking is less effective than it could be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DXBtoFL
When you babble about *well-established, scientific fact* you'd better have a full understanding of a) what science is, and b) how you are applying it, and c) what facts mean, and d) that "facts" =/= my personal opinion glanced from looking at a headline in my favorite newspaper or listening to my favorite news anchor. Probably the greatest lasting consequence of COVID, other than the deaths, has been the politicization of science by both political factions.
Oh, come on now, I’m far too articulate to be a babbler, am I not?
But yes, I do know what those concepts are and am mindful of phenomena like confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance. I largely follow the lead of my front-line healthcare worker spouse who, suffice to say, has been witness to some awful things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DXBtoFL
As a dual citizen with Britain I rely on Britain and the EU for most of the COVID news and it's amazing how different it is over there compared to the US.
If only Americans were as good at getting vaccinated as Brits EU residents.
[re: lifting of the Federal mask mandate on public transportation]
April 18th. It would be a weird scenario traveling to Philadelphia if that mandate is lifted. A person wouldn't need a mask during travel, but would need one to check into their hotel...
Just extended to May 3rd.
News reports this morning say New York officials may be mulling reinstating one but that the decision is "a politically difficult" one.
And the vaccinated by and large fared far better than the un-vaccinated.
While that may be true, I can tell you what my personal experience has been. Not vaccinated, got the OG Covid in January 2020, mild case that lasted a little more than a week. Got Omicron in January 2021 (I'm assuming, never got tested, just stayed home; but I was around someone on Christmas Eve who tested positive days later). A nothing burger. In addition to the fact that when Delta was rampant, I was at my FIL's funeral (in the receiving line no less) and the subsequent luncheon, maskless, and did not get sick. I was also at a wedding downtown in November, maskless, and did not get sick. So that tells me that natural immunity is a thing. I got Omicron simply because it was highly contagious. I don't get every Tom, Dick, and Harry cold or flu that comes down the pike, my immune system is generally good. But the strains that are highly contagious? Whammo, they hit me like they hit everyone else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElijahAstin
Masks work. That’s a well-established, scientific fact. Whether reimposing the mask mandate now across-the-board is proportional to the state of the pandemic is a different issue. I have mixed feelings about it. I’m definitely frustrated, but I’m outraged far more at people who continue to refuse the vaccine far more than I am at the powers that be in the city.
You shouldn't be. You're vaccinated, you're good. Vaccines are for the person who gets them, not the person next to them.
I must ask (maybe naive), how does this Bettigole person have so much control over the mandate? Can Council override her decision or only the useless Mayor? It appears most of Council is in agreement that this mandate is a mistake.
Philly mask mandate draws jabs from Stephen Colbert and City Council members
"Given the chance to ask Philadelphia Health Commissioner Cheryl Bettigole anything about COVID-19 on Wednesday, one City Council member brought up late-night comedian Stephen Colbert. “They were like, making fun of us on his show,” said Councilmember Allan Domb, “which hurts my pride and everyone’s pride in this city.”"
"Domb’s other concern was the number of calls he’s received from residents and businesses complaining about the return of the mask mandate, slated for this Monday."
"“What’s going to happen, and I’m concerned about this, is this is going to be a major setback for our people and the economy,” he said during the health department’s budget hearing before Council on Wednesday. “Just think about the weddings that are planned for May, June, and July, that are probably going to have to get moved.”"
"Domb noted that a 50% increase in cases, one of the data points that prompted the city to resume the mask mandate, is less meaningful if there are few cases to begin with, and asked whether the Philadelphia Department of Public Health would reconsider the mandate. Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia’s PolicyLab has said masking probably is not necessary now, and Anthony Fauci, the president’s COVID adviser, said people could make their own decisions about the protection they need, though a mask may be needed again eventually. Domb suggested a strong recommendation might do instead."
"Councilmember Cherelle Parker mentioned during the hearing, held virtually due to COVID precautions, that a large Center City employer complained the reinstated mandate will discourage workers from returning to the office." “We do have to be accountable to the business community,” Parker said."
While that may be true, I can tell you what my personal experience has been. Not vaccinated, got the OG Covid in January 2020, mild case that lasted a little more than a week. Got Omicron in January 2021 (I'm assuming, never got tested, just stayed home; but I was around someone on Christmas Eve who tested positive days later). A nothing burger. In addition to the fact that when Delta was rampant, I was at my FIL's funeral (in the receiving line no less) and the subsequent luncheon, maskless, and did not get sick. I was also at a wedding downtown in November, maskless, and did not get sick. So that tells me that natural immunity is a thing. I got Omicron simply because it was highly contagious. I don't get every Tom, Dick, and Harry cold or flu that comes down the pike, my immune system is generally good. But the strains that are highly contagious? Whammo, they hit me like they hit everyone else.
That’s nice. I’m glad you didn’t hit the COVID complications lottery and “win big” (which, to be clear, has odds in line with a scratch-off ticket, not the powerball). Hopefully you’ll continue to be just fine, and you probably will. I won’t argue with you about your (in my view, rather foolish) refusal to get vaccinated. If people far smarter and better-informed than me couldn’t convince you to get inoculated, I know I don’t have a snowball’s chance in hell. It’s okay. I know you probably think I’m an alarmist for getting vaccinated. Your opinion on the subject means as much to me as mine does to you, and that’s a matter-of-fact statement I make with a shrug.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyers Girl
You shouldn't be. You're vaccinated, you're good. Vaccines are for the person who gets them, not the person next to them.
Now back to Philly...
Of course I should be. I, like you, would probably be just fine if I got COVID. I’m young, healthy, and in reasonably good shape, and I also have a “generally good immune system.” The same is true for my wife, a front-line healthcare worker, and, more critically, our young child who can’t yet be vaccinated. But I see no reason to take the risk in the first place. I’m less likely to get COVID (and as far as we know, no one in the house has gotten it, although we can’t say for sure beyond a reasonable doubt), but I could still get it, and while I’m less likely to get seriously sick, it could still happen, and I would much rather it not happen.
I was just fine when I got the chicken pox as a young child—the vaccine not yet having been approved in the United States—but I sure as hell would have gotten the vaccine if it had been available to me, and I would have avoided having to worry about shingles in old age.
Anyway, I have started wearing my mask in indoor public areas again. I don’t love doing it, but to me it’s a minor (and largely symbolic) inconvenience.
You shouldn't be. You're vaccinated, you're good. Vaccines are for the person who gets them, not the person next to them.
Yes and no.
The reason people push to get as many people as possible vaccinated is because it's the safest way to achieve "herd immunity," which occurs when somewhere around 70 percent of the general population has the ability to fend off a transmissible virus.
The more people get vaccinated, the harder it is for the virus to jump from person to person. So yes, your getting vaccinated helps protect the people around you.
I'd heard of only one country (Sweden) that tried to achieve herd immunity the "natural" way, namely, by letting the virus run its course through the population. I don't know how well that worked out.
Clearly, Omicron is a mutation that allowed the virus to evade the defenses we'd erected up to that point, given that people who had acquired immunity either through vaccination or through having had COVID already got it anyway. But none of the smaller number of severe cases arising from Omicron or its new subvariant have occurred among the previously immune, or at least none I've heard of. Edited to add: But the fact that Omicron is behaving this way, and the likelihood that in response, we will wind up recommending that people get booster shots at regular intervals, causes me to interpret the current news and trends in the fashion I have, namely, that SARS-CoV-2 is indeed headed in the direction of the flu, and will likely get there very soon.
ElijahAstin: One of those vaxxed and boostered friends who caught Omicron is my 78-year-old ex (79 as of this coming Wednesday, April 20), who is in generally good health. He convalesced at home with only mild symptoms. The appearance of "(largely symbolic)" in your most recent post is why there's so much pushback in response to the decision to reinstate the mandate.
ElijahAstin: One of those vaxxed and boostered friends who caught Omicron is my 78-year-old ex (79 as of this coming Wednesday, April 20), who is in generally good health. He convalesced at home with only mild symptoms. The appearance of "(largely symbolic)" in your most recent post is why there's so much pushback in response to the decision to reinstate the mandate.
I meant that I see the inconvenience as a symbolic one. As a matter of principle, I find it infuriating that I need to wear a mask again when I walk into Starbucks for my morning coffee in large part because many people continue to refuse the vaccine. But since I’m only going in and out, it’s not a huge deal.
As I’ve said before, I get the frustration, and I, too, am frustrated. The cause of the mandate (as opposed to the mandate itself) is where I focus my frustrations. As always, even when we don’t fully agree on something, I respect your opinion as someone both smarter and better-informed than me.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
