Philadelphia 2035 (Reading, York, Washington: boat, museums, competition)

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Great Cory Popp video, but I'm still opposed to the cut and tunnel being incorporated into the park.

However, since SEPTA, which owns both, seems to have no idea yet what kind of transit it might want to put there....

Why are you opposed to the tunnel portion?

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by Pine to Vine

Not really familiar with those stretches. What do you think would be a better use for each?

I live about 5 minutes away from the entire thing. The tunnel is a complete eyesore right now which is seen in Cory's video.
I'm interested to hear why Sandy (Market El) is against incorporating the tunnel. Including the tunnel will separate our rail park from turning it into some kind of NY High Line clone.

[asiandudeyo]

Originally Posted by kyb01

Same here! Finally. But it will probably take a couple of years more to complete it.

I think it should be done by the beginning of 2018.
I think once they are done with the ground work, the building itself will go up pretty fast.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by kyb01

Why are you opposed to the tunnel portion?

One, because as we've seen with the now-apparently-forever-beyond-reversion Newtown Branch, once a rail transit line gets converted to recreational use, it stays recreational, no matter how much of a need exists for transit improvements, and I think the City Branch cut and tunnel has potential as that rapid transit missing link for the Parkway and points northwest;

two, I really don't think a tunnel makes a good green space. A cut might, but not a tunnel.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

One, because as we've seen with the now-apparently-forever-beyond-reversion Newtown Branch, once a rail transit line gets converted to recreational use, it stays recreational, no matter how much of a need exists for transit improvements, and I think the City Branch cut and tunnel has potential as that rapid transit missing link for the Parkway and points northwest;

two, I really don't think a tunnel makes a good green space. A cut might, but not a tunnel.

As you well know that pie-in-the-sky idea of putting transit there is an idea that is not going to happen. Ever. More feasible, and immediately needed, is extending the BSL to the Navy Yard.

I see your point about not turning the tunnel into a green space. But, converting it will, imo, distinguish the entire project from being a NY High Line clone.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by kyb01

As you well know that pie-in-the-sky idea of putting transit there is an idea that is not going to happen. Ever. More feasible, and immediately needed, is extending the BSL to the Navy Yard.

I see your point about not turning the tunnel into a green space. But, converting it will, imo, distinguish the entire project from being a NY High Line clone.

Well, so's the Roosevelt Boulevard subway. But without an ironclad pledge to give up the ROW should SEPTA ever get around to doing the "Cross County Metro" or Northwest BRT or whatever it might decide to fill the the hole with, I will remain opposed. Unless and until I see service restored to Newtown, that is.

And I don't think that "keeping the project from being a High Line clone" is sufficient reason for a dubious tunnel park. Isn't the whole point of a park like this the view? There's not much of one from a ditch, or from inside a tunnel. Replicating what's worked well elsewhere is no crime.

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by kyb01

Yes, I think you are correct. And, what's left of the Reading Company is doing a Rappaport. But the fact remains I rode on those trains long ago( probably only southbound 295 may have too) never thinking that the rail track areas could be transformed.

I did as well on the old R2 line


My memory is how smoky and dark the old Reading terminal rail head was. I also remember the excitement to ride into the new tunnel and to emerge in the Gallery - how times have changed on the Gallery front

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

One, because as we've seen with the now-apparently-forever-beyond-reversion Newtown Branch, once a rail transit line gets converted to recreational use, it stays recreational, no matter how much of a need exists for transit improvements, and I think the City Branch cut and tunnel has potential as that rapid transit missing link for the Parkway and points northwest;

two, I really don't think a tunnel makes a good green space. A cut might, but not a tunnel.

I agree wholeheartedly on both accounts


the current tunnel would not add anything great for a park and is surrounded by so much green space - it would be overkill and a non productive use.


I believe the tunnel could be used as BRT or LRT - I also believe we need to be forward thinking - the new rail yard cap in U City has planned to set aside space for transit. To me the Pennsy cut/tunnel could be used to extend to the art Museum and further along the eastern park to link with potentially the rail ROW and out to the BLVD for some form of BRT (Or LRT think BRT is more realistic given cost) to extend along the BLVD.


The new routing could also come across at SG using the already built tunnel in front of the Art Museum steps and into the new rail yard cap and use the underground 31st street to link at 30th and into UC City and over in SWCC. BRT could used along the DE ave and into the NY and connect with the BSL. There are other options like Washington Ave or 25th street down to the NY as well (even some connection to the new Penn Dev on the eastern side of river (further south then south))


BTW I am pretty sure I walked past you on 9th Street by the Italian market about a month ago - almost said hey MSL this is KP

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by kyb01

As you well know that pie-in-the-sky idea of putting transit there is an idea that is not going to happen. Ever. More feasible, and immediately needed, is extending the BSL to the Navy Yard.

I see your point about not turning the tunnel into a green space. But, converting it will, imo, distinguish the entire project from being a NY High Line clone.

Isn't NYC in the planning stages for the "Low Line" though?

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Well, so's the Roosevelt Boulevard subway. But without an ironclad pledge to give up the ROW should SEPTA ever get around to doing the "Cross County Metro" or Northwest BRT or whatever it might decide to fill the the hole with, I will remain opposed. Unless and until I see service restored to Newtown, that is.

And I don't think that "keeping the project from being a High Line clone" is sufficient reason for a dubious tunnel park. Isn't the whole point of a park like this the view? There's not much of one from a ditch, or from inside a tunnel. Replicating what's worked well elsewhere is no crime.

If I were you I would just move on from any notion that anything in your first paragraph will happen.

I don't agree about keeping the tunnel like it is now for something even more dubious, imo: a very unlikely proposal to use it for transit.