Philadelphia 2035 (Reading: video, smells, couple)

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by kyb01

I don't hate Toll Brothers overall. But I do not like what they do in Philadelphia...the same low brow/no challenging attitude persists with them... It reminds me of the what we've discussed in retail thread.

In that aspect yes, they are a public company though, so they do not like to be "risky" they have even said that in a statement. Whereas in NYC they are building tall shiny buildings in every neighborhood.


This Jewelers Row project is their most ambitious yet for the city, if it is a success they will most certainly continue on in Philadelphia.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by cpomp

I think the fighters need to let this one go, this project will provide more benefits than setbacks for the neighborhood. Far more unique and historic architecture that has been lost through the years for parking lots and ugly buildings.


The only reason so many people are aware/care about this project is because its Jewelers Row and Toll Brothers (why people hate them I still don't know why). This is a bandwagon fight, which to me is obnoxious and impeding good development.


Go fight for something more worthy like the old Please Touch Museum which is being replaced by horrific townhomes (yet no one seemed to care about it).

Some of the people raising a stink about Jewelers Row also raised a stink about the 21st Street project, but you are right that the higher profile of Jewelers Row has brought more of them to the barricades.

As for Toll Brothers: It's what kyb01 said. The company is very conservative in its in-city developments here in Philly; even getting them to consider mixed-use where sites call for it (2400 South, 410 at Society Hill) flopped.

Which is what makes the Jewelers Row project such a delicious irony. As I remarked to a friend of mine who's prominent in the preservation movement, "So finally Toll Brothers is doing what so many people here want it to do! Trouble is, they're razing part of a historic row to do it." A façadectomy might just be the half a loaf that's better than none - but it seems Toll's not interested in that.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Hey, it's way better than a façadectomy. Most of the historic buildings are left intact.

The shame of what appears likely on Jewelers Row is that Toll Brothers isn't even willing to consider a façadectomy.

I couldn't find any renderings of what Toll actually wants to do just descriptions.

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by kyb01

I couldn't find any renderings of what Toll actually wants to do just descriptions.

Wonder why they are being so secretive.

[kyb01]

Whoa....just read that Dalian on the Park(the residential section the new Whole Foods complex), only open a month, is already for sale.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by cpomp

Wonder why they are being so secretive.

I would guess, inspite of keeping the front fascades(right?), it will be as boring as everything else Toll does in Philadelphia. Sigh.

Btw, the development of the very cool, kinda bi-level, Old City tower, near the BF bridge, is coming along nicely.

[RightonWalnut]

Originally Posted by kyb01

Whoa....just read that Dalian on the Park(the residential section the new Whole Foods complex), only open a month, is already for sale.

A lot of developers do this. Most Developers do not manage properties as well. The same thing happened with 2116 Chestnut and The Granary.

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by kyb01

I would guess, inspite of keeping the front fascades(right?), it will be as boring as everything else Toll does in Philadelphia. Sigh.

Btw, the development of the very cool, kinda bi-level, Old City tower, near the BF bridge, is coming along nicely.

Its funny that so many people in the city do not like the Old City Tower saying it is ugly, out of place, weird looking etc. when I think that is one of the coolest new buildings going up in the city right now, sometimes I think people just like to be negative or really hate new development and change.


And if you look at Tolls website, some of the projects they are working on in NYC are very attractive, anything but ho-hum. Hopefully the CC tower is not a brick shoebox.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by cpomp

Its funny that so many people in the city do not like the Old City Tower saying it is ugly, out of place, weird looking etc. when I think that is one of the coolest new buildings going up in the city right now, sometimes I think people just like to be negative or really hate new development and change.


And if you look at Tolls website, some of the projects they are working on in NYC are very attractive, anything but ho-hum. Hopefully the CC tower is not a brick shoebox.

I read your first paragraph and thought, " These are the same people who probably think Naval Sq is wonderful." It was Toll
Bros first foray in the city, I believe. Meh. It was great to develop that historic space but it already looks tired.

At street level the Old City project may look out of place. I saw it from the El yesterday, past the Spring Garden station, and it's stunning from that height. Different. Colorful. Unexpected. There's a lot of new and interesting development nearby but, agreed, it's the most striking thing going up in Old City or N. Liberties. It's bold very much in keeping with Society Hill Towers which probably got a ton of attitudinal nimby when they were built years ago.

Yeah, Toll's NYC projects are cutting edge.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by cpomp

Wonder why they are being so secretive.

Originally Posted by kyb01

I would guess, inspite of keeping the front fascades(right?), it will be as boring as everything else Toll does in Philadelphia. Sigh.

Btw, the development of the very cool, kinda bi-level, Old City tower, near the BF bridge, is coming along nicely.

I'm supposed to be going on a Hard Hat Tour of 205 Race soon.

My guess re: Toll is: Given that this project has run into a buzzsaw of criticism different in degree and kind from what the company has gotten for its other projects here (both realized and vaporware), they're holding their design cards very close to the vest lest another group pile on when they're released. No matter; that will happen anyway.

IIRC, Toll's project is by right based on its lot's zoning.