Rank Pennsylvania's Cities (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Allentown: vs, safe, office)

[Mr Yuk]

Originally Posted by FlyerNation

What we have in this thread is a serious inferiority complex coming from the western part of the state.

The same can be said with Philly compared to NY.

I really wouldn't want to live in either....but if I was to live in a big city, Pittsburgh would be one of my top choices, probably because Pittsburgh is kind of a big small city, I live in Scranton and Pittsburgh's demographics and culture are actually very similar to Scranton. Pittsburgh is kind of a big Scranton, and Philly is kind of a small NYC, and NYC is one place I would not want to live.

[Ohiogirl81]

Originally Posted by BPP1999

There doesn't seem to be a strong anti-Pittsburgh sentiment in Eastern PA

No? I hear it -- and read it on these threads -- all the time: Everyone who is not from eastern Pennsylvania, is a rube. Ignorant. Conservative. Stuck in the past. If the people from everywhere else in Pennsylvania are not living in corrugated tin shacks and collecting welfare, and driving rusted pickups with gun racks, then they're disgruntled, unemployed steelworkers. Cue "Dueling Banjos."

There also is a surprising lack of cognizance among the good folk of southeast Pennsylvania about the history, geography, culture, etc. in rest of the state. Sure, they know what goes on in State College, and may actually have traveled there. I shake my head in wonder when I have to explain to people I've met in Philadelphia for the zillionth time that Pennsylvania is a Great Lakes state, that there's more to Johnstown than the flood museum (which is truly awesome, by the way), or that the Allegheny National Forest encompasses a good chunk of the northern half of the state. There is little awareness of anything west of the Susquehanna, except the Pittsburgh sports teams.

There's also an economic component. People in the other three corners of the state, and especially in Western Pennsylvania, see so much state money going toward Philadelphia -- which has the largest population concentration in the state and therefore the per capita expenditures aren't really as out of line as they seem -- but Philadelphia is seen as a giant cash drain nonetheless.

Just telling you what I see and hear, as someone who's lived on both ends of the state.

[pman]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

My Pics prove my point about Pittsburgh and its neighborhoods, and those blurry shots of South St you posted are proving ???????....My pics are from various neighborhoods around Pittsburgh outside of the Core...You're doing nothing but proping up Center City and i already conceeded that Center City was the better downtown...

yeah, sorry, I'm not a photographer with my iphone, that really proves your point. while I was hesitant to get into a flame war with you since you've obviously been insulted by the assertion that Philly is a more vibrant city, I really have to say, you are bending the truth as much as anyone here. none of the pictures I posted were of south st. two were in northern liberties, one was in the Italian Market, which, btw, is superior to the Strip District. I'd also like to point out that Roxborough and Andorra are both in the city.

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

How can you say Philly's metro is strong when it has a higher unemployment, much more proverty, has a morely and finiancally corrupt government and is on the brink of bankrupcy....you can't claim "METRO" and exclude the city itself...come on now, I wasnt born last night.

the Pittsburgh metro is shrinking fast and I see little evidence of robust job creation. unemployment rates aren't some magical indicator. they go down when people leave. you can't take a snapshot of one year and make a meaningful statement. the Philly metro has been growing, Pitt metro shrinking. and yes, Philly played a larger, if still limited, part in the boom and thus the bust. if you want to argue that things are changing (rather than as things have been), fine. I think Philly will be held down by pharma consolidation (pfizer is laying off thousands) as well as the city's continued inability to generate jobs, which brings down the rest of the metro area.

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

On the other hand Pittsburgh seems to be the shinning star of almost ever national travel publication...Havent read too much about Philly except about its crime problems.

what a load of BS. Philly's had it's share of travel magazine ops and was named America's Next Great City. What Pittsburgh is seeing now is pretty much the same thing that happened to Philly a few years ago.

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

I dont know every type of food i can get in Philly I can get in the Burgh, except for a good cheesesteak, but I also can't get a pramanti's in Philly either sooo....oh you can't get scrapple in the Burgh either, but I know how to make it so not an issue.

Primatni's is garbage. there were a couple of places that tried serving it but it's really not a good sandwich. Overall, food quality is higher in Philadelphia, but Pittsburgh is catching on.

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

Sorry L'ville exceeds Fishtown - Fishtown does not have galleries, Art all night, Trendy Resturant, or schwank bar scenes...Fishtown in the Burgh would be Greenfield

certainly does have art galleries and does have good bars, I don't do the pretentious schwank scene so I can't speak to that.
as for teh rest of this highly subjective post, I have to call you out on the strip district. that's a total lie. there's no way in hell the strip beats the italian market. penn mac's fresh mozzarella is okay, claudio's is friggin amazing. that makes me fairly skeptical of the rest of your list.

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

Pittsburgh Neighborhoods Vs Philly as far as Vibrant
Sq Hill - Chesnut Hill Winner Sq Hill
Lawrenceville - Olde City Winner Old City
Carson St - South St Winner Carson
Oakland - University City Winner Oakland
Shadyside - Nothing of a neighborhood outside Center City exsist Winner Shadyside
Bloomfield - South Philly Winner Bloomfield
North Shore/Lower Northside - Stadium Complex Winner North Shore
Greenfield - Fishtown Winner Tie
Mt Washington - Camden waterfront Winner Mt Washington
The Strip - Italian Market Winner The Strip
Downtown Pittsburgh - Center City Philadelphia Winner Center City
Friendship/Penn Av Arts - Northern Libs Winner Friendship
East Liberty - Olney Winner East Liberty Kills it

not sure why olney would make this list rather than manayunk, which I think is a second rate carson st, unless you're trying to compare diversity (of which olney is the most diverse in Philly, then obviously olney wins). Also, winner bloomfield is highly suspect as well. I'd probably compare Fairmount to the north side. I definitely agree that the north shore is a better location for the stadiums than the stadium complex.

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

Because its the arrogant elitest attitudes of your fellow Philly Fanboys on here (pman and rainrock) that act like Philadelphia leigons above Pittsburgh.....as they try to blow tons of smoke up peoples butts...I'm here to ingect some realism...Philadelphia is not worlds above Pittsburgh...Not Sophically, Cultrually, nor mentally

wow. I'm saddened since I'm usually the one that dislikes arrogant elitist attitudes but I feel like you really don't understand what I said, and are just upset. I'm not sure how it's arrogant or elitist to say Philly is more vibrant overall, it's a much large city at the center of a much large metro area. It has more cultural events, and that's a fact. I don't recall ever saying it was mentallly better. furthermore, I really like Pittsburgh and find the city to be a smaller version of Philly in a lot of ways. I'm not blowing smoke up anyone's butt.

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

as a matter of fact on a national scale seems like Pittsburgh gets more attention than Philly because of the NY-shadow that Philly lays in...

that's certainly possible, but not a fact. plenty more people don't think about pittsburgh at all. I tried convincing a friend of mine he should consider moving there for her residency but it was quickly crossed off the list as some backwater, dying dump. Apparently she doesn't read the forbes lists. Philly made the short list but ultimately lost out to LA. I don't agree with her opinion, obviously, as I tried to get her to visit. just want to point out that large swaths of people aren't reading the positive press. worse, philly and pittsbrugh are very alike in this respect. both are rust belt cities with loads of bad press from the past. both have improved and have received some positive press.

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

Based on people and mentalities...A Pittsburgher can come to Philadelphia and not feel any cultureshock what-so-ever just feel like their in a bigger Pittsburgh...same for a Philadelphian can come to the Burgh and blend right in they may have withdrawls of not having a Cheesesteak but that's about it. I know of 5 native Philly people that moved to the burgh personally and have no problem with it...Not saying they're doing cartwheels because the burgh is better..they're content...

This is coming from someone that knows both cities in and out....

I think that's right on. I like good food and would miss the Philly food and esp beer scene but Pittsburgh has a lot of the other things I like about Philly (history, older architecture, great old parks) and I think the fresh and local movement is a natural fit for PA and will continue to improve food across the state. It seems to have a slightly less corrupt government (though it too has had it's share of incompetence) and neither are going to hold a candle to government efficiency in some newer cities. my whole bag is that PA is the only northeast state with two potentially great cities. they have different struggles to overcome and different problems, but in the end, are more similar than most are willing to admit. I'm sorry you got offended as I generally respect your opinion, even if I don't totally agree with it here. Philly's major attraction is certainly center city, but it's hardly the only nice part of town, though I do agree that Philly's commercial districts often struggle under the reign of city Democrats. As I noted long ago, Pitt vs Philly is largely about taste and comparing the two will undermine the utility of this thread since it's PA's other cities most of us know the least about.

Originally Posted by OhioGirl88

There also is a surprising lack of cognizance among the good folk of southeast Pennsylvania about the history, geography, culture, etc. in rest of the state. Sure, they know what goes on in State College, and may actually have traveled there. I shake my head in wonder when I have to explain to people I've met in Philadelphia for the zillionth time that Pennsylvania is a Great Lakes state, that there's more to Johnstown than the flood museum (which is truly awesome, by the way), or that the Allegheny National Forest encompasses a good chunk of the northern half of the state. There is little awareness of anything west of the Susquehanna, except the Pittsburgh sports teams.

Philly is definitely oriented east. Like many Pennsylvanians, natives don't travel much and live in the city-shore-poconos dynamic. It's partly the lingering affect of the alleghenies, I think, though I've noticed it seems a lot more people have travelled to Pitt since Southwest launched cheap air service between the two cities. I hope megabus continues this trend, and ultimately I hope to see high speed rail between the two cities so I can set up an exchange program. transportation has an enormous impact. it's no coincidence that Philadelphia has been one of the few cities to see growth in foreign tourism over the last decade, as US Air launched new routes to Europe. domestic tourism also increased when southwest started service out of Philly lowering fares to visit the city. as for the rest of the state, again I agree here. I think it was one of Rendell's better moments when he established the Penn Wilds and set up a tourism campaign to get people to travel throughout PA. My parents actually took a couple of those roadtrips and loved it. I think Pennsylvania has an often subtle beauty and is generally an underrated state (of course, when we're talking harrisburg, I start to think it's not underrated, just poorly run).

Originally Posted by OhioGirl88

There's also an economic component. People in the other three corners of the state, and especially in Western Pennsylvania, see so much state money going toward Philadelphia -- which has the largest population concentration in the state and therefore the per capita expenditures aren't really as out of line as they seem -- but Philadelphia is seen as a giant cash drain nonetheless.

there's some truth to this but it's nothing in comparison to the way NY dominates NYS. Philadelphians often see the rest of the state as trying to screw them and as people who have an irrational hatred of their home. there's some truth to that as well. I think often as not, people mix the city in with it's very different suburbs. you've got dumps like camden but bucolic, wealthy, and more importantly, fast growing job generating counties like chester (not to be confused with the city of the same name). I think the truth of the matter isn't that Philly is screwing the rest of the state or vice versa, it's that we're all getting a raw deal from harrisburg. and let's not forget that while Philly gave the state Vince Fumo (now in jail) it was wilkes barre that gave the state the shocking kiddie jail scandal where a judge was wrongly sending innocent kids to juvie in exchange for kickbacks.

[omgsh]

philly is a global city, pittsburgh is not (sorry for spelling pittsburgh wrong earlier)
philadelphia isnt the nyc of PA it is the philadelphia of PA. but looking back at my post i did kinda word that wrong. what i was trying to say is that the way that people compare pittsburgh to philly is kinda like the way people compare philly to nyc. they are not fair comparisons. Im not saying pittsburgh is unimportant, its just not the #1 city in PA. This is not a diss on pittsburgh at all. Pittsburgh looks like a very nice city, and like i said, its ok to like pittsburgh better than philly, just like i like philly better than nyc, la, and chicago, but those 3 rank higher than philly. (trying not to turn this into a rank the US's cities but its the only comparison i can think of)

So i completely understand if you like pittsburgh better than philly, but this has nothing to do with Fatness, Uglyness, Miserable-ness, please dont call philly a dumpster because it is where i am from and all my family and most of my friends are from philly as well. Dont say everything outside of center city is a giant ghetto because that is very untrue. Im from a nieghborhood that is not in center city, which happens to be a nice, safe neighborhood.

and kooble i dont know what Fortune 500 Corporation Headquarters is so i cant answer that question sorry. That's very cool to know about pittsburghs role in WW2 i didnt know that. And your right i dont know the history of pittsburghs role in the creation of the country. i know about NYC's philly's and boston's because thats what i was taught in school. What was pittsburghs role in creating the country? i never learned about pittsburgh in school. (this is a serious question im actually interested in knowing)

also many of phillys problems it has now is because the previous mayor (Street) was a horrible mayor and was borderline retarted. We have a new mayor now who is doing a much better job, and problems are being fixed slowly.

Pittsburgh is a very important city to PA, but Philly just ranks higher than it. again, this is not meant to be a diss on pittsburgh at all

but we've kinda went off-topic here, myself included. Were ranking all of PA's cities, not just the biggest 2. So here's my new list:

1. Philly- biggest in the state, 2nd biggest on the east coast, argueably the most historic city in the us
2. Pittsburgh- 2nd biggest in the state, has some history as well
3. Harrisburgh- capital of the state
4. Erie- near lake Erie
5. Hershey- chocolate, Hershey park
6. Lancaster- amish
7. Allentown- Dorney Park
8. Scranton- The office

EDIT: one thing i forgot to say: philly, pittsburgh, its all part of pennsylvania, why do we have to make the other look bad, and point out all the flaws in the other city. why cant we just be proud of our state?

[toobusytoday]

Originally Posted by alleghenyangel

I moved to Pittsburgh from Michigan a couple years ago. So far the only larger PA cities I have been to are Pittsburgh and Philadelphia. I assume these are the best cities in the state, considering they are the largest and generally considered the most vibrant. Or am I wrong? I thought it would be fun if people familiar with the state could rank its cities. I am particularly curious about Erie, Scranton, and Harrisburg.

I would like to suggest that posters concentrate on the question and not insult other posters. Also, I think there have been enough dueling picture posts. If someone really wants to see pictures of a city they can just google the city's name and look themselves. Multiple pictures wreak havoc with people with a slow connection.

Personally speaking as someone who is not from PA, but moved here about 20 years ago, I truly don't understand the animosity between the residents of our bigger city's. I think they are all unique and interesting.

[Ohiogirl81]

Originally Posted by toobusytoday

I would like to suggest that posters concentrate on the question and not insult other posters.

OK, so I shouldn't have said that "i" word. I apologize. But I still stand by my observation that all this arguing is tiresome.

I truly don't understand the animosity between the residents of our bigger city's.

Big cities are just as provincial as small towns, if not moreso -- heck, New York City is as provincial as anywhere else on this planet.

The animosity certainly not unique to Pennsylvania. You should read some of the Cincinnati/Cleveland/Columbus posts over on the Ohio forum. Again, it comes down to misinformation, old information, and lack of information. On all sides.

[Mr Yuk]

Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81

No? I hear it -- and read it on these threads -- all the time: Everyone who is not from eastern Pennsylvania, is a rube. Ignorant. Conservative. Stuck in the past. If the people from everywhere else in Pennsylvania are not living in corrugated tin shacks and collecting welfare, and driving rusted pickups with gun racks, then they're disgruntled, unemployed steelworkers. Cue "Dueling Banjos."

There also is a surprising lack of cognizance among the good folk of southeast Pennsylvania about the history, geography, culture, etc. in rest of the state. Sure, they know what goes on in State College, and may actually have traveled there. I shake my head in wonder when I have to explain to people I've met in Philadelphia for the zillionth time that Pennsylvania is a Great Lakes state, that there's more to Johnstown than the flood museum (which is truly awesome, by the way), or that the Allegheny National Forest encompasses a good chunk of the northern half of the state. There is little awareness of anything west of the Susquehanna, except the Pittsburgh sports teams.

There's also an economic component. People in the other three corners of the state, and especially in Western Pennsylvania, see so much state money going toward Philadelphia -- which has the largest population concentration in the state and therefore the per capita expenditures aren't really as out of line as they seem -- but Philadelphia is seen as a giant cash drain nonetheless.

Just telling you what I see and hear, as someone who's lived on both ends of the state.

The elitists from the bigger cities always look down at the rest of us "hicks." Ask somebody from Philly, Jersey, NYC, etc, and they think Scranton is all depressed out-of-work coal miners living in dilapidated shacks.

[pman]

Originally Posted by go phillies

The elitists from the bigger cities always look down at the rest of us "hicks." Ask somebody from Philly, Jersey, NYC, etc, and they think Scranton is all depressed out-of-work coal miners living in dilapidated shacks.

no, everyone thinks of the Office now. everyone has their generalizations not just "big city elitists." it's human nature. and since when did anyone start caring what people in jersey think?

[KoobleKar]

Originally Posted by FlyerNation

What we have in this thread is a serious inferiority complex coming from the western part of the state.

Really?

Huh.....if you actually followed the thread from the beginning, you'd quickly see that the original poster asked to rank cities AFTER Pittsburgh and Philadelphia.

There was never supposed to be any debate between any ranking of those two cities.

Then we had a Philadelphian acting like someone with an inferiority complex come along and begin the pissing contest.... even though he was asked several times NOT to go off-topic and it was pointed-out to him that the two biggest cities weren't the ones being ranked here.

[KoobleKar]

Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81

No? I hear it -- and read it on these threads -- all the time

Well put..... and this thread, read from the beginning, is a perfect example.

Just because the OP and a couple others put Pittsburgh at the top of their list, the Philly people blow a gasket over it. Pittsburghers never have any inferiority complex because they already know why Pittsburgh is ranked America's Most Livable City.

Pittsburghers don't care about Philly 99.9% of the time. The only thing they really ever comment on is how State funding goes East of Harrisburg.