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Especially when it comes to sex. While rape is of course bad, I've heard some parents, fathers especially, for some reason, why say they would kill someone if they raped their daughter. I sort of understand the rage etc they would feel, but how is it right or justifiable to murder someone for rape? Or not even rape, but consensual sex. Or phrases like 'i'll break your leg if you break her heart' (even if metaphorical) that are supposed to sound all family-orientated and noble. To me it just makes them sound like violent jerks.
It seems most people would applaud or encourage such thinking and behaviour, which makes me cynical about human nature in general.
Moderator Cut- You say you can not grasp why a father would "murder" a man for raping his daughter - as if rape was some unfortunate occurrence - and the woman simply did not enjoy the sex and she will "get over it" RAPE is right up there with murder. When a woman suffers rape she becomes emotionally damaged- sexually dysfunctional - and incapable of being a full and good mother or NORMAL wife...In effect the rapist may not kill the victim physically but the rapist has murdered the personality and spirit.... If someone were to have raped one of my daughters or sons....and not to sound dramatic...I would make sure that the person was neutered through blunt trauma caused by a boot...and I would do the five years for the assault- I would not murder them but I would hurt them and they would never rape again.
You don't make the effort of bringing children into the world to have them ruined by mad dogs and perverts. They mess with my investment - I take way their future potential to invest.
Last edited by Jaded; 08-08-2013 at 12:13 AM..
Reason: Flaming/insult
It is instinctive for many males to want to protect their women. It is built in to them. Chalk it up to evolution and biology but many a man has died trying to protect women or have gone to their own deaths because of the "women and children first" cultural phenomena. Not true in all societies but typically so in western ones.
Not just "their" women, but women in general. I am perhaps somewhat less protective of my daughters friends but still protective. Their friends tend to be pretty much like members of our family anyway. I am not going to interview perspective dates, but they do learn that we have her back, even if her family does not. Never really had to do anything except explain to one guy that I can have a restraining order against him the next morning if he ever went near the friend again. However, normally, they simply become aware there will be more than one person to answer to if they mistreat her. Sometimes it can help both of them to know a gal is not hanging out there alone with no support other than the boyfriend.
Before I wised up I frequently got hurt intervening in public domestic violence events. Eventually I learned intervening usually does more harm than good for the victim. It certainly did more harm than good for me. (I am pretty big, but not much of a fighter). It is virtually impossible to stand and watch some guy beat up on a woman and do nothing. Usually you can just scold them and they stop, but sometimes they turn against you. Unfortunately any interference usually means a more severe beating for her when they get home. Most times she will not leave without him, so you put yourself at risk and only hurt her as well. Anyway, I am digressing.
Sex isn't really an issue either as long as they are doing it safely. I agree that its not good for a teenager to get pregnant and it can be very hard for them to handle that - I think thats made worse by the teen being afraid that their parent would not be there to support them (not saying you wouldn't be but for example if I had gotten pregnant as a teenager I would have been extremely scared of telling my parents and asking for their advice and support). Nowadays, with abortion easily available, teen pregnancy isn't going to end a teenagers prospects (and of course if my daughter got pregnant and wanted to keep the baby I would support her fully in that too but in either case the likelihood of it happening is slim)
I will always be here for my daughter no matter what she does and I will relay that message to her every day of her life. People make mistakes and do stupid things. It's going to happen. Where we all differ here is whether it's a mistake for a teen to be having sex in the first place. I don't think it's good for me or anyone in my little family to engage in behaviors that they are incapable of handling. I want to teach her not be a slave to her desires and to think rationally. I'm just not sure how to go about that yet, but as mentioned there are parents who manage it so, hopefully I can learn from them. At the very least I will be up front and center and try to provide her with a life where sex doesn't have to be a priority and where she will lack great daily opportunity for it. If she can at least wait until she is legally allowed to work full time, as any adult, that will be good.
Does the same hold true for girls meeting a boy's parents?
Exactly. I am wondering if these fathers who insist on meeting their daughter's dates insist on meeting their son's dates. I'm also wondering if these fathers are OK with another man interviewing their daughter.
Daughter comes home and says, "Dad, he gave me an extra firm handshake. It was like he was trying to show me he was stronger than I was. Then he asked if I could swim across the river with a refrigerator on my back."
or
"Dad, he asked me if I could cook and clean. And give him grandchildren."
I'm also wondering if they interview their son's dates. (Or are their sons allowed to actually leave the house and take a girl to the movies without Daddy thinking he needs to meet and pass judgement on her.)
Why it supposedly takes "guts" to meet the father remains unknown. Would it take "guts" for the daughter to meet the father (or mother) of her date? Do they not believe the young man taking out their daughter is capable of being a secure, intelligent young man who is confident meeting new people? Or is meeting them just so darn overwhelming the young man is quaking in his boots and taking a deep breath before he rings the door bell?
I will always be here for my daughter no matter what she does and I will relay that message to her every day of her life. People make mistakes and do stupid things. It's going to happen. Where we all differ here is whether it's a mistake for a teen to be having sex in the first place. I don't think it's good for me or anyone in my little family to engage in behaviors that they are incapable of handling. I want to teach her not be a slave to her desires and to think rationally. I'm just not sure how to go about that yet, but as mentioned there are parents who manage it so, hopefully I can learn from them. At the very least I will be up front and center and try to provide her with a life where sex doesn't have to be a priority and where she will lack great daily opportunity for it. If she can at least wait until she is legally allowed to work full time, as any adult, that will be good.
Yeah thats where we differ. I don't think its such a big deal if they do have sex, I'm not going to say 'go ahead, have fun' but I will let her know that she can talk to me without fear of judgement and let her know where the condoms are kept.
Hope you can manage it, keeping busy is probably the best way.
The thing is that kids don't need to date to go out. My 14 year old son doesn't date. But he does go out without my husband or I. He likes to go ice skating or bowling. He likes to see movies. A few of his friends live in communities with community pools and the boys like to go to the pool and swim and shoot baskets at the clubhouse.
Sometimes girls go with them. They aren't dating and it isn't usually an even number of couples. Even if it's not a "dating" situation it is important for kids of both genders to learn to socialize. Kids don't need to date to be exposed to social situations where the opposite sex is present. That is how they learn to act around boys (or girls), not by you keeping them away from each other.
So you are bringing up a complely differant item to the agenda then aren't you. Having fun doing things is what kids do. Our kids swim, hang out at the beach, go to the park, see movies, spend time with friends. They also do that with their friends and away from us. Still we check up on them. We know where they are and who they are with. We have dropped off kids at Six Flags and it could be boys and girls. They are their by themelves having fun. At the end of the day we pick them up. No big deal. Wouldn't call it dating though. That is just having fun.
Funny, we never really had the sex issue with our daughters. They simply were not going to do it. We did not need to discuss it, they chose not to have sex during high school and made that choice clear. It was simply a non-issue. What they decide in college who knows. One is adamantly committed to saving sex for her husband only.
We have met my sons girlfriends before they started dating. Not really a planned thing, just the way the relationships developed. She would come over to our house with friends, and then sometimes without friends, just to hang out and pretty soon he would take her out on a date. He did take one girl out without meeting her father first and I called him a cad and shook my head at him - then he told me her father was dead. The girls he has dated, he knew for at least several weeks or months before they went on a "date" Usually she would come over several times and they would do homework together, watch movies or play X-box, erg, swim or go for a run or kayaking or something. He might go have dinner with her family, or go out with them for family bowling night. Later, he might pick her up before school or practice and go get breakfast and drive here to school or practice. He is so busy with practice, there is not much time for "dating" Most of their time together is at practice and competitions. Sometimes they eventually go to movies, go sledding, or go hang out at the park with friends for an afternoon. By then we know her pretty well and her parents know him pretty well. If we are worried about it, we send little brother along as a chaperone, or his sisters can follow him discretely (but visibly). Helps keep things in check if he has big sisters sitting behind him at the theater or little brother sitting next to him. His sisters keep him more under their thumb than we do. If he were to mistreat a girl, I would not want to be in his shoes. It is a small town. They will know. In a few instances when they finally reached the "date" point, it lasted one date and he came back saying "She just sat there, she would not talk, would not dance, really did not respond at all. It was horrible and uncomfortable the whole time." (clearly she was scared).
We make it clear to his dates that we expect him to be a gentleman at every moment and if he fails even to open the car door, or leaves her alone, pays attention to another girl, drives in a way that scares her, swears offensively, etc, she can let us know if she wants and we will sit him down for a talk. We really do that more as a reminder to him than in the expectation that she will ever report bad behavior on his part. Of course parents never have any idea what works and what doesn't. We just have to provide guidance, make our expectations clear and hope. My parents never found out a tenth of the stuff I did (but then they did not pay much attention either).
Some day he may meet one of the girls described here who is aggressively into sex (I never could find such a girl when I was a teen). He is well aware how sex can change a relationship and the physical risks involved. We also remind him regularly that most high school relationships end in heartbreak, especially for the boy, and the further you go, the more painful the end tends to be.
In general we have some rules, but most are specific for the kid and the potential beau. As to sex, we make it clear we prefer they wait and make sure they understand the huge life changing impact sex can have. From 14 to 16 they can go to dances and things, usually in a group or just a couple if the parents are driving. However they usually just met their "dates" at the dance, roller rink or movie. 16-18 generally group "dating" is fine. One on one, that depends on the circumstances tailored to each kid and who the intend to date and where they want to go and who will be with them etc. . We are stricter with my son than we were with ur daughters, simply becasue we need to be. His is different than they were. Not worse or better, just different.
Last edited by Coldjensens; 08-07-2013 at 10:49 AM..
And you completely ignored what I brought up, in this country and time period, the typically 18 yo, is AWAY AT COLLEGE. So you are expecting them to learn to date while learning to live on their own where you can give next to ZERO guidance. That was not the norm 20-30 years ago.
So unless you are planning on not allowing your child to go away to college, you are expecting them to learn to deal with dating, not group dates, real dating, at a time period they are learning literally everything else. Bad idea.
I really have no idea what you are talking about. Why would you think it would be such a problem to figure out how to date someone? What do you think is so hard to figure out? Our young men learn how to respect themselves and how to respect young women. Our daughter learns how to respect herself and young men. Common coutesy is something that kids can learn when they are young. What would you have them learn that they have not learned allready?
Yeah thats where we differ. I don't think its such a big deal if they do have sex, I'm not going to say 'go ahead, have fun' but I will let her know that she can talk to me without fear of judgement and let her know where the condoms are kept.
Hope you can manage it, keeping busy is probably the best way.
Hopefully she will get the message that their is no sexual judgement. I have a colorful sexual past myself, and it's not about sex, but responsibility. And this mindset permeates most other areas in my life.
But yea, keeping her busy seems to be the best way so far.
Is it just me or is this just a case of people taking things WAAAAAY too seriously? For all of the dads who have made comments about owning a gun, a shovel, and piece of land in the boonies, cleaned firearms in front of a potential boyfriend, etc... How many cases do we see in the news about fathers ACTUALLY attacking/killing their daughter's dates over some perceived slight or improper behavior? Not many. Lighten up people, it's a joke. Even Rodney Atkins adds the line "It's all for show, ain't nobody gonna get hurt" at the end of this song:
As the father of a daughter (not yet two) I plan to teach HER how to handle herself as well as firearms, fix things, hunt, fish, play sports, or do whatever else she puts her mind to. In our house everyone does everything. My wife and I both cook, clean, laundry, do yardwork, etc... Sure, there are some things that I know how to do (I'm pretty mechanically inclined) that she doesn't, so I work on the cars and fix things around the house, but she's not helpless, and my daughter won't be either.
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