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Old 06-09-2012, 08:05 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 23,132,446 times
Reputation: 17484

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
I don't subscribe to the raise kids on praise movement. I've stated that already. I don't praise dd#2 either (a fact dd#1 ignores). Dd#2 has more expected of her because she can deliver more. IMO, praise builds the kind of fragile self esteem I see in my students every day and I don't want that for my kids.

Blowing sunshine up their butts does not work. I thought we'd established that already.

Please go back and read my posts about her and the band teacher. You are not getting this. You're stuck on PRAISE WILL WORK. Praise doesn't work. At best, it creates a praise junkie who can't self assess because they NEED the approval of others. At worst, it backfires, which is what it does with dd#1. If I tell her she played well at the concert, she tells me "Not as well as DD#2"....Her band teacher delivered a compliment when he asked her to try out for wind ensamble, her response was to refuse to learn the piece. Sersiously, some here need to start actually reading my posts.
OK. Don't praise her. I agree that specific encouragement is what is needed not praise.

HOWEVER - she's not on here.

No negatives now. What are dd#1s good qualities? What do you like about her. Not physical qualities. What is it in her personality or her accomplishments that you actually like enough to tell us about them?

 
Old 06-09-2012, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Asheville NC
2,063 posts, read 1,975,266 times
Reputation: 6271
I was just wondering what is so bad about saying you like the color of her nail polish, (if you do). Seriously, I was brought up with if you have nothing positive to say, say nothing at all. Constructive criticism is good. I have read years of Ivory's posts and agree she has nothing positive to say about DD1, (sadly). We have no way to know of D's real problem, being in therapy that is seemingly not producing results. All I know is that children crave their parent's approval and attention, and DD1 doesn't seem to be getting what she wants from her parent's. She is acting out --throwing and breaking things---any attention is better than none.

In an Art critique, being a former Art Director, I know something about -- you first say something positive, then get to the point of the changes you want --then conclude with another positive and some praise to the artist/ illustrator doing the work. You get results that way without too much push back.

A dog should have entered her life in an earlier time. Now is way too late. She could have spent years learning the responsibility and receiving unconditional love from the dog.It could have changed her life. A pet now would be a problem if she was to go away to school. (FYI some larger dogs need less running room than some smaller, do some breed research.)

Ivory what are DD1's good qualities??? We would like to know. We cannot tell from your posts. Is she kind to animals and young kids??

I am so very sad for you both.
 
Old 06-09-2012, 09:11 PM
 
32,516 posts, read 37,471,009 times
Reputation: 32591
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
But if we are telling the OP that attention seeking behaviors shouldn't be positively rewarded, why are we doing that very thing?
The mushrooms caused mass delusion and we think we can actually help this situation?
 
Old 06-09-2012, 09:32 PM
 
28,163 posts, read 25,511,185 times
Reputation: 16672
Quote:
Originally Posted by funisart View Post
I was just wondering what is so bad about saying you like the color of her nail polish, (if you do). Seriously, I was brought up with if you have nothing positive to say, say nothing at all. Constructive criticism is good. I have read years of Ivory's posts and agree she has nothing positive to say about DD1, (sadly). We have no way to know of D's real problem, being in therapy that is seemingly not producing results. All I know is that children crave their parent's approval and attention, and DD1 doesn't seem to be getting what she wants from her parent's. She is acting out --throwing and breaking things---any attention is better than none.

In an Art critique, being a former Art Director, I know something about -- you first say something positive, then get to the point of the changes you want --then conclude with another positive and some praise to the artist/ illustrator doing the work. You get results that way without too much push back.

A dog should have entered her life in an earlier time. Now is way too late. She could have spent years learning the responsibility and receiving unconditional love from the dog.It could have changed her life. A pet now would be a problem if she was to go away to school. (FYI some larger dogs need less running room than some smaller, do some breed research.)

Ivory what are DD1's good qualities??? We would like to know. We cannot tell from your posts. Is she kind to animals and young kids??

I am so very sad for you both.
Yep, yep.
 
Old 06-09-2012, 10:18 PM
 
16,824 posts, read 17,884,500 times
Reputation: 20853
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
The mushrooms caused mass delusion and we think we can actually help this situation?
I missed them being passed out. Again. That sucks.
 
Old 06-09-2012, 11:07 PM
 
3,086 posts, read 7,654,701 times
Reputation: 4470
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
The mushrooms caused mass delusion and we think we can actually help this situation?
Ok, now that really made me LOL so that my cat darted out of the room!! Thanks! :-)
 
Old 06-10-2012, 07:52 AM
 
Location: In my skin
9,229 posts, read 16,633,090 times
Reputation: 9176
I don't know that you are, as others suggesting, making DD1 feel inferior or that you favor one over the other. I haven't read that many of your posts in that area. But I do think you are enabling entitled behavior and I can see where fairness can lose balance. I'm sure you're not saying it out loud and I think you mean well, but it will come across one way or another - to hope DD2 does just well enough to get in, which is less than her best, for DD1's sake is a problem. That it is acceptable for her to do any less than her best, in this particular situation, for anyone's sake is a disservice to her. In a game of checkers, maybe (MAYBE). A college exam. No way.

It looks like DD1 could do better but doesn't want to put forth the effort. That is completely on her. The counselor is right. Being 10 points lower on the IQ scale doesn't make her stupid. If she wants to believe that and play a victim to mean, mean mommy and daddy, no matter how many times you tell her that isn't the case, she will. There isn't much you can do but you don't have to cater to it. The only energy I would give to that is a loud and strong message that she is alone in her pity party and that she has to earn her successes like everyone else, including her sister. "I said I don't think you're stupid. That discussion is closed. Prep for that exam or not, it's your future."

Siblings will never be the same, they will have different strengths and weaknesses. But they should be consistently rewarded for the good as much as they should be held accountable for the bad. If one gets more praise, so be it. That's just the way it is. I know it's easier said than done, but life isn't fair and they should accept and build upon the gifts they are given.
 
Old 06-10-2012, 09:02 AM
 
4,253 posts, read 9,506,072 times
Reputation: 5141
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Appears to be seeking attention rather than listening to advice given......
Sort of a vision of DD1 all grown up and having (similar) problems with her own daughter. Would rather type furiously away, sparring with invisible people, than owning to the situation. Instead of dropping everything, doing something radical (spending weeks in the wilderness? rafting? mountain climbing? spending all available time at an animal shelter? travelling to another culture?) - in short, shaking up her whole life as means of trying to get her out of her shell, -

accepting the status quo with all sorts of excuses. But who's to blame? The blind will only know how to be blind.
 
Old 06-10-2012, 09:05 AM
 
14,294 posts, read 13,284,048 times
Reputation: 17797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
I don't subscribe to the raise kids on praise movement. I've stated that already.
That is why I hate the word praise. That is why I don't use it. The author I linked to up thread speaks precisely to your concern with praise as it has come to be execute. She and I agree with you that just saying happy words is not helpful. It is not what I, or many others are talking about. I am going to say it one more time. Describe to her in an appreciative manner that which you actually appreciate. SHOW her her value. Also show her value with the other things I described.
 
Old 06-10-2012, 09:07 AM
 
14,294 posts, read 13,284,048 times
Reputation: 17797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
Methinks I am being ignored. I'll keep posting away.
That is my feeling as well. Peace. Only post what is desired to be heard.
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