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People can smell being disingenuous from a mile away. It must be genuine.
Which is why I asked Ivory what DD2 was good at PAGES ago. As did Mags. You praise the child for a job that is HONESTLY well done and it sinks into their brain that Mom does care and, gee, gosh, maybe I do have some self worth. You start then when they are little guys doing a bang-up job holding the dust pan for you.
(And I'm still waiting for an answer on that one.)
Of course. I believe that somebodynew and the others are correct in saying that genuinely acknowledging positive behaviors that occur is useful. Even in the most severely behavior disordered children and teens, there is always some behavior that can be reinforced because you genuinely want to see that behavior again. I am uncertain why some posters are construing that as hollow praise. It is puzzling to me.
Positive behaviors are acknowledged. I never said they weren't. Did I not discuss her being asked to try out for wind ensamble several posts back? I just don't use praise. I use constructive criticism. I won't say "WOW that sounded wonderful"..."I'll say, I like the way your staccatto's (sp?) were crisp.". I believe in giving feedback a child can use to keep doing what they were doing. If praise is generic "You play well" the child doesn't know what they did right or even if they did anything right and you're just saying that they played well.
There is a difference between say "You write well" and "I like the way all of your letters have the same slant to them". The first does nothing. The second empowers the child to continue doing something that works. Praise is always hollow and it doesn't build self esteem. It builds a fragile ego. That's why I don't use it.
[quote=Lucidkitty;24672594]Plenty of parents play favorites with kids however. It's not abnormal for one child to be valued or praised much more than another to that child's detriment. It can effect different people in all kinds of ways. Some people become more driven and work hard to shove it in their parents face. And others get into a funk of depression, and lack of self worth. I'm not saying that is what is happening here, just that it could.
As for your last point none of us can say because ivory is so selective with the data she gives us. It's hard to give advice when you only get 30 percent of the info on what is going on with this girl. I think also people have a harder time giving any as well because ivory does nothing but berate her one daughter and praise the other. Even if the one child is a PITA, they still have some redeeming qualities. But again with the info we have it's hard to say.[/color] [b]I think a mix of praise and forcing her to do work might be the best. And if that doesn't work switch therapists and see if she has a developmental disorder,depression, or even has a level of autism.
I never saw favorites for one over the other. I hear this when I read her posts. I have one that is ok, happy, doing well actually so what would be different with the other one?
I raised both, one is doing well, one is not. Why is one succeeding and one is failing? One is applying herself, I don't have to say much, she is a self starter and I'm proud of that.
One isn't applying herself, she isn't doing well, it worries me, how can I help her do better. I spend most of my time walking on eggshells around her and it's less enjoyable and makes me miserable. I need to help her. Something is wrong.
I am the same mom to both besides the extra effort I have to put into my oldest because of her lack of interests and jealous tendencies. I would rather spend happy time with her but it's very hard when she is down all the time and against my advice. We've been to therapy, she is still there but the dynamic of our family are still out of whack. I'm tired and at a loss.
I get about 80% of the story, IMO , enough to realize this child has issues beyond her control right now. That is is effecting family dynamics and she is aware of that. It's hurting everyone, and Ivory is just trying to figure out a way to balance her family. She might just need an ear as well. I would.
I see her putting more physical time into daughter number one purely because she demands it. So she gives it. Is she tired of it? I think so, does it suck, yes. But she is still here trying to help her.
I also see a lot of people telling her it's because she gives one more attention than the other, if she'd just tell her older daughter she likes her then it would be ok. BS, IMO. I'm sure to her younger daughter it looks the opposite. My older sister gets all the attention because she is always demanding it and angry when it's lacking. The family dynamics in my opinion are messed up, that happens when a child in the family has behavioral or mental issues. It's not uncommon and it's not from lack of parental involvement or liking one child over the other. IMO. Of course.
So, yes, you can get totally different things out of posts. I agree. It might steam from our experiences. If you were a child who felt bad about your mom and felt like you didn't get the wind beneath your wings from her you might see it differently. If you had a child with a behavioral problem and know how hard it is you might see it differently. It all depends on the glasses you are viewing it through.
Which is why I asked Ivory what DD2 was good at PAGES ago. As did Mags. You praise the child for a job that is HONESTLY well done and it sinks into their brain that Mom does care and, gee, gosh, maybe I do have some self worth. You start then when they are little guys doing a bang-up job holding the dust pan for you.
(And I'm still waiting for an answer on that one.)
Go back and read. I have mentioned things she's good at. You just keep ignoring them.
Positive behaviors are acknowledged. I never said they weren't. Did I not discuss her being asked to try out for wind ensamble several posts back? I just don't use praise. I use constructive criticism. I won't say "WOW that sounded wonderful"..."I'll say, I like the way your staccatto's (sp?) were crisp.". I believe in giving feedback a child can use to keep doing what they were doing. If praise is generic "You play well" the child doesn't know what they did right or even if they did anything right and you're just saying that they played well.
There is a difference between say "You write well" and "I like the way all of your letters have the same slant to them". The first does nothing. The second empowers the child to continue doing something that works.
I disagree as the first gives the child some acknowledgement they did a good job for the effort they put in. My parents gave general praise and it motivated me to keep my high grades because i wanted them to be proud like i was of myself. I KNEW the things i needed to work on, and didn't need them to point them out. And since things like music are subjective to the ear that praise might not be exactly right.
I told myself to stay away but just have to say.....Ivory, I think you need to find a therapist for yourself because it seems your current one has failed you miserably.
This therapist has apparently not made the connection that your daughter is you and you are your daughter.
For instance, nothing you do is good enough or works according to your own posts. You are given suggestions and could take action to help yourself succeed in both professional and personal situations. 'A' doesn't work. 'B' is useless. 'C' already failed. 'D' isn't the problem. 'E' won't work. 'F' isn't my fault. 'G' is all my fault. Those are all things you say and your daughter says.
in your previous teaching position you felt you could not get the students engaged nor keep the admin happy no matter what you did or tried. You felt undervalued just by having to take that particular job.
Your daughter feels undervalued as a daughter/person and nothing she does works.
You were given suggestion after suggestion to help you succeed. You criticized them all and didn't seem to try any of them. You set yourself up to fail. In the end you gave up on that job and began searching for another. You went through many interviews where you felt you were the most knowledgeable about the subject, yet weren't hired for those and again stated you must not be good enough.
Your daughter has been given suggestion after suggestion to help her succeed. She refused to take any of your suggestions to improve herself. She's criticized them all and doesn't want to even try. She gives up and feels she isn't good enough no matter what she does. She also set herself up to fail.
Your current teaching job you have stated that you feel that you are not valued by the admin as they are placing a 'favored' new hire in front of you. Again it seems you wish not to even try to make it better. Instead you have succumbed into the 'I'm are not good enough' pit.
You daughter has done and said numerous things that say she does not feel valued by her family, teachers and peers and yet she does nothing to try to make it better and once again succumbs into the 'I'm not good enough' pit.
If you could find a therapist who understands who YOU are and why you do and say those type things, then you will find a therapist who understands your daughter and can help you both.
I disagree as the first gives the child some acknowledgement they did a good job for the effort they put in. My parents gave general praise and it motivated me to keep my high grades because i wanted them to be proud like i was of myself. I KNEW the things i needed to work on, and didn't need them to point them out. And since things like music are subjective to the ear that praise might not be exactly right.
Nope, it does nothing. I have to get a couple of things done right now but remind me to tell you how praise undermined dd#2's confidence the first time she played piano outside of competitions (where NO ONE gets praised. What they get is criticism and they understand that the less criticism the better.)
Praise like "You did well" does not tell a child what they did well. It does not prepare them to repeat the performance. They hear "I expect you to do well" only there's no real definition of well given here.
Close. Dd didn't want individual counseling. Dd wanted me in counseling. She wants someone to say that all of this is my fault. She wants the world to be the way she thinks it should be. We both went for a while then the counselor suggested she just see dd. Efforts to forge a normal mother/daughter relationship didn't work. Dd would like to not be in counseling at all, however, you are correct that the counselor would have let us know if family counseling or she and I going together was warranted.
I have no idea why people here think they know better than the counselors who have, probably, 100 hours into this issue (Man that's a lot of copays...I'm so lucky my insurance covers this.)
Dd is only happy with me if I'm giving her what she wants and the more I give, the more she wants. Eventually, when I say no, then the roof caves in. I will admit to saying yes too much in an attempt to appease her but it doesn't work and I'm not one to keep on doing what doesn't work so I just don't bother saying yes anymore.
We had a typical dd moment today. She's been asking for a puppy for her birthday. Her dad said he'd think about it (I'm not a dog person so this is his call as I'm not signing up for house breaking and walking it) and asked what kind she wants. She came back with some huge breed and I told her it's too big for our yard. Well, now we need a new remote for the TV because she tried to throw it through the glass on the french doors. Fortunately, the only thing she shattered was the remote (we're talking SHATTERED here)...then she posts on facebook for all the world to read about how we PROMISED her a puppy and then renegged. No one promised and no one renegged. She was simply asked what breeds she likes (I think her dad was going to get her a puppy for her birthday) Now we have a problem because giving her the puppy now would mean rewarding her outburst.
I have more broken things in this house from her outbursts. She has no door jamb on her door because she broke it off, the bathrooom door needs a new frame and the side door needs replacing. Her temper has never gotten her what she wants yet she refuses to control it. Everything is the end of the world if she doesn't get EXACTLY what she wants and when she does, she's mad that she didn't get more. Seriously, I think I've given her too much. Like many here, I thought that maybe the issue was that I paid too much attention to dd#2 so I tried paying more attention to dd#1 only to be told whatever I did was never enough. I've come to the conclusion that sacrificing her sister on an alter wouldn't be enough. She uses people. She plays people. She's good at playing her dad and I against each other but he's, finally, starting to see what she's doing. She is going to be in serious trouble as she gets older if we don't fix this.
If this type of behavior is not responding to her current therapy, I would strongly encourage you to examine an alternative therapy. There are evidence-based treatments that deal with exactly this type of behavioral and emotional dyscontrol. You may already be pursuing one, I have no idea, but this is not behavior that I would expect after several years of effective treatment.
Positive behaviors are acknowledged. I never said they weren't. Did I not discuss her being asked to try out for wind ensamble several posts back? I just don't use praise. I use constructive criticism. I won't say "WOW that sounded wonderful"..."I'll say, I like the way your staccatto's (sp?) were crisp.". I believe in giving feedback a child can use to keep doing what they were doing. If praise is generic "You play well" the child doesn't know what they did right or even if they did anything right and you're just saying that they played well.
There is a difference between say "You write well" and "I like the way all of your letters have the same slant to them". The first does nothing. The second empowers the child to continue doing something that works. Praise is always hollow and it doesn't build self esteem. It builds a fragile ego. That's why I don't use it.
I agree!
Quote: Parents everywhere praise their kids when they do well in school, win a ball game, or build an impressive sandcastle -- anytime their kids do something remarkable, or in many cases, something plain, old vanilla.
"We are becoming praise junkies as parents," says Jenn Berman, PhD, a marriage and family therapist and author of The A to Z Guide to Raising Happy and Confident Kids. "We've gone to the opposite extreme of parents from a few decades ago who tended to be more strict, and now we overpraise our children."
By giving kids heaping portions of praise, parents think they're building their children's confidence and sense of self -- when it may be just the opposite.
"Somehow parents have come to believe that by praising our kids we improve their self-esteem," says Paul Donahue, PhD, founder and director of Child Development Associates. "Though well- intentioned, putting kids on a pedestal at an early age can actually hinder their growth."
So what is the right amount of praise? Experts say that the quality of praise is more important than the quantity: if praise is sincere and genuine, and focused on the effort, not the outcome, you can give it as often as your child does something that warrants a verbal reward.
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