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I also want to add to Shadowcaver, that my relationship with my son is far from being perfect actually. Gentle Discipline is a very hard very "get off your butt" type of parenting. It is a long rocky road for everyone including me. Unfortunately, I do not feel comfortable enough to share my hardships on this board because I don't want to get advice like: "just spank his honey and call it a day".
Well, if you refuse to go to the dentist, people won't be patient in listening to you complaining about your toothache.
Oh now parents who spank are lazy because any other type of parenting you have "get off your butt". Wow
Let's take it down a notch. If you will "quote" me, let's make sure to get it right. I have never said that parents who spank are "lazy", but I have said that I believe that using spanking as a primary method of discipline is lazy and uninspiring. It takes nothing to use the palm of your hand or a belt to smack a child in the butt and see him immediately "improving'.
The reason I said what I said is because let's not make assumptions that because I don't spank, I have an easy going relationship with my son. Obviously some parents quickly jumped on that to tell me: well if you werern't so self-righteous, maybe you wouldn't have these problems...
Your analogy would only work if I couldn't resolve my issues with my son without the spanking, fortunately for me and him, I can.
But at a cost. You obviously think the cost is worth it for you to be one of the chic 'no-spanking' people. But it's a chosen, self-imposed cost, and yes, it will limit the degree of sympathy you encounter.
But at a cost. You obviously think the cost is worth it for you to be one of the chic 'no-spanking' people. But it's a chosen, self-imposed cost, and yes, it will limit the degree of sympathy you encounter.
And you think I don't know that? Strong opinions always come with a price...
One of the reasons why I thought spanking is not such a bad thing... My aunt raised all three of her kids under the absolute-no-spanking rule and let me tell you, those kids are/were really disrespectful. She did the time-outs, taking away currency, the disapproving look, grounding... everything non-corporal. I lived in her house for four years so I have a pretty good idea of what was going on. One of her kids slapped her across the face... another screamed... "f you, f you!" (and this "kid" was 30 when she did this) - I could bore you with more stories...
Everyone in my family knew how bad these kids were and they were the only one's that were not spanked. To be fair, my aunt was a single mother and I don't think she had the time to spend on these kids. However, my husband's mother was a single mother of 5! Her kids were rarely disrespectful, ... she spanked.
I'm not saying that spanking is the first or even second choice... but if I have to instill "fear" in order to get respect then so be it. Fortunately, I have the time (I'm a SAHM) and the patience to do the time-outs (my girls HATE them) and I'll get more creative as they get older. But I'll always keep the "spanking card" in my back pocket just in case I have to use it...
Last edited by mommabear2; 10-08-2007 at 06:52 PM..
Reason: deleted a word/clarification
Let's take it down a notch. If you will "quote" me, let's make sure to get it right. I have never said that parents who spank are "lazy", but I have said that I believe that using spanking as a primary method of discipline is lazy and uninspiring. It takes nothing to use the palm of your hand or a belt to smack a child in the butt and see him immediately "improving'.
The reason I said what I said is because let's not make assumptions that because I don't spank, I have an easy going relationship with my son. Obviously some parents quickly jumped on that to tell me: well if you werern't so self-righteous, maybe you wouldn't have these problems...
MaxMama, I'm not jumping down your throat however, some of the things that you said/comments you made would lead one to believe that you were on a "high horse" or that parents who spank are "bad parents".
I have to agree with MommaBear in that, what she witnessed in her aunts' household, I've seen happen a million and one times. In addition, I rarely spank my daughter, but that's because she doesn't behave in such a way that would warrant spankings. Now she has, in the past, attempted to mouth off and I gave her one good spanking, hasn't happened since. My main problem with her is following instructions or doing what I told her to do (i.e. clean up your room before you go outside; pick up behind yourself) -to me this doesn't warrant me to spank her. I just use alternative methods (i.e. no t.v.; no cheerleading; no going outside, etc.) On the other hand, I've seen parents like yourself that try alternative measures and the children are OUT OF CONTROL (talking back; cursing; refusing to follow instructions; just out-right DEMONS). Parents just sitting there trying to speak to them calmly......"Bobby come sit down, we're not going to act like that"; "If you continue, we're going to leave"; "please Bobby you know better, we don't behave like that now do we", yadi yadi yadi) - freakin' child is still going full speed ahead taking advantage of the situation-no respect. IMO - a good swift snatching, and swat on the behind would prove immediate results or make him think twice about doing it again
Disclaimer: I DO NOT condone child abuse. There is HUGE gap between spanking and child abuse
MaxMama, I'm not jumping down your throat however, some of the things that you said/comments you made would lead one to believe that you were on a "high horse" or that parents who spank are "bad parents".
Well, that's where it is unfortunate that we cannot hear each other, just read each other's posts, because actually I would never call a parent who is in distress and had to spank a child a bad parent. Actually it takes a lot for me to call anyone a bad parent, but I might comment on disciplining methods. When I said "sucks to be them" I did mean it, because I just wish that everyone figured out a way to not do it. But not everyone can. A parent does the best they can under the circumstances and with resources that they have. No doubt about it.
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I have to agree with MommaBear in that, what she witnessed in her aunts' household, I've seen happen a million and one times. In addition, I rarely spank my daughter, but that's because she doesn't behave in such a way that would warrant spankings. Now she has, in the past, attempted to mouth off and I gave her one good spanking, hasn't happened since. My main problem with her is following instructions or doing what I told her to do (i.e. clean up your room before you go outside; pick up behind yourself) -to me this doesn't warrant me to spank her. I just use alternative methods (i.e. no t.v.; no cheerleading; no going outside, etc.) On the other hand, I've seen parents like yourself that try alternative measures and the children are OUT OF CONTROL (talking back; cursing; refusing to follow instructions; just out-right DEMONS). Parents just sitting there trying to speak to them
calmly......"Bobby come sit down, we're not going to act like that"; "If you continue, we're going to leave"; "please Bobby you know better, we don't behave like that now do we", yadi yadi yadi) - freakin' child is still going full speed ahead taking advantage of the situation-no respect. IMO - a good swift snatching, and swat on the behind would prove immediate results or make him think twice about doing it again
Mommabear aunt example was a perfect example of a parent who just didn't find connection with her children. Since I wasn't there I can't tell for sure, but seems to me that even if she did spank, not much would change. Those children's disrespect was in rooted so deeply.
This "Bobby" example is nothing like me. I don't repeat myself more then twice. My child behaves like "Bobby" and he is removed from the situation entirely no matter where he is: restaurant, playground, someone's birthday. Obviously he is too wired up to be present in the situation, so he needs "re-charging". This "please please" begging doesn't work. Not all.
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Disclaimer: I DO NOT condone child abuse. There is HUGE gap between spanking and child abuse
Hey, at least we agreed on something!!! But I do find something interesting:
Imagine the force that you use on your child's behind when you spank/swat him. Now imagine that you use the same force on your child's face. Would turn red huh? Would really hurt, huh? Now imagine this same force used to slap your husband's face. How about if your child uses that same force to hit you? Just because it's on the butt, doesn't make it right.
Well, that's where it is unfortunate that we cannot hear each other, just read each other's posts, because actually I would never call a parent who is in distress and had to spank a child a bad parent. Actually it takes a lot for me to call anyone a bad parent, but I might comment on disciplining methods. When I said "sucks to be them" I did mean it, because I just wish that everyone figured out a way to not do it. But not everyone can. A parent does the best they can under the circumstances and with resources that they have. No doubt about it. .
I'm going to leave this one alone because you continue to insinuate "bad parenting"
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Originally Posted by max's mama
Mommabear aunt example was a perfect example of a parent who just didn't find connection with her children. Since I wasn't there I can't tell for sure, but seems to me that even if she did spank, not much would change. Those children's disrespect was in rooted so deeply..
how can you say that mommabear's aunt couldn't find connection with her children. that connection should have been a belt to their behind! Deeply rooted yes, because she never spanked their behinds.
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Originally Posted by max's mama
This "Bobby" example is nothing like me. I don't repeat myself more then twice. My child behaves like "Bobby" and he is removed from the situation entirely no matter where he is: restaurant, playground, someone's birthday. Obviously he is too wired up to be present in the situation, so he needs "re-charging". This "please please" begging doesn't work. Not all..
the Bobby example wasn't meant for you, my comment said that I've seen this time and time again and it doesn't work. The child continues and continues, even after being removed from the situation. Maybe they should seek alternative methods, like spanking
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Originally Posted by max's mama
Hey, at least we agreed on something!!! But I do find something interesting:
Imagine the force that you use on your child's behind when you spank/swat him. Now imagine that you use the same force on your child's face. Would turn red huh? Would really hurt, huh? Now imagine this same force used to slap your husband's face. How about if your child uses that same force to hit you? Just because it's on the butt, doesn't make it right.
If my child were to EVER raise her hand at me..........uh I'll just cut my comments here
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Deeply rooted yes, because she never spanked their behinds.
