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OK, so maybe we examine what we think 'defines' someone to be gay then. How do we make a judgement that one person might be gay and another not? How do we look at two men walking together and decide if they are gay or not? Two men sharing an apartment together - are they gay? How do we determine this?
How about instead we examine why some of us feel the need to "define someone to be gay"? What business is it of yours and mine?
This is why we look at a man who wears skinny jeans, or has a slightly higher-pitched voice, or listens to Taylor Swift, and assume he's gay -- even though none of those things has anything to do with who he finds sexually attractive.
Exactly. I am a straight male with zero sexual interest in my fellow dudes. I wish I could wear skinny jeans and enjoy listening to Taylor Swift (her music seems happy enough vs. what I typically enjoy, but I just can't get into it). Like, that image is actually aspirational to me because my baseline is "moody athletic-ish dude who could stand to lose 10 lbs". The good news is that I couldn't give a flaming fart about some people judging me for it, but I just tend to find the notion of there being "gay things" and "straight things" ridiculous. The only things that should even remotely be classified as such are actual sexual encounters (and even then your mileage may vary).
Funny story, my married brother and his married guy friend were on a road trip with their respective teen daughters for some dad-daughter bonding. One night the girls were up in their room and my bro and his friend went to dinner in the hotel. They got to talking with the server and mentioned they wanted to order something to go for "our daughters." The waiter made assumptions and was just delighted with these progressive gay dads and bought them dessert. Bro and friend were tickled by it and just went with it. Just another couple of rich white Republicans from Texas with no issues about gay people.
Good on them. I've got one, too. My best friend fled a certain Eastern European country when it invaded a certain other Eastern European country earlier this year. I booked a hotel for them in their stopover point (a Central Asian country that couldn't exactly be counted on as being progressive). Waiting for him in the room were three huge chocolate hearts with his name and mine (twice, for some reason) written on them in fondant. We laughed our asses off about it. I can only imagine how confused the hotel reception was when he showed up there with his wife and two kids.
Well, I dunno….I dated a guy once who stated he would never go to a movie with another guy because he might be perceived as gay.
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Originally Posted by Kluch
That's a bit "over the top" if you asked me. Like... if he had a brother would he not want to go hang out with him at a bar/elsewhere just because someone might think his brother was in a romantic relationship with him?
The idea of not going to a movie with another dude sounds like something a working class guy may have said in the 70's as part of a backlash against the nascent gay lib movement. Heck, for all I know, working class guys may still say that. I doubt a middle class white guy would have ever had the same fears.
On one hand, man avoid doing lots of perfectly normal things in order to avoid being marked as gay...
For instance, they don't wear skirts or dresses, they avoid pink color, they avoid speedo swimming briefs and opt for trunks, they avoid wrestling (because I don't want to hug another guy), etc...
The high school I taught at lost its Wrestling team for just that reason. The demographics changed and the incoming kids had never been exposed to high school/collegiate wrestling (they had, however been weaned on WWE) and were afraid they'd be seen as gay if they participated in the sport. The last year we had a team it had four kids.
Up until then we almost always had a couple or three kids go to States every year, with more than one winning their weight class.
How about instead we examine why some of us feel the need to "define someone to be gay"? What business is it of yours and mine?
Oh come on, do you try to find ways to feel offended on behalf of humanity? I went to a gay bar with a lesbian friend… guys who approached me couldn’t believe I WASN’T gay and thought I was just not interested in them. So there, GAY people ALSO make it their business to define someone to be gay. Shocking that PEOPLE try to define PEOPLE in order to help UNDERSTAND them.
The high school I taught at lost its Wrestling team for just that reason. The demographics changed and the incoming kids had never been exposed to high school/collegiate wrestling (they had, however been weaned on WWE) and were afraid they'd be seen as gay if they participated in the sport. The last year we had a team it had four kids.
Up until then we almost always had a couple or three kids go to States every year, with more than one winning their weight class.
Lol, strangely enough that was one of the reasons why I didn't take up wrestling in HS.
I was a scrawny light weight, but started working out and was wiry but kinda strong.
I also watched WWF (yep it wasn't WWE back then lol), though I knew technical wrestling was real and WWF wasn't lol.
I mentioned thinking about trying out for wrestling and one of my classmates made a "gay" joke... something to the tune of... well you well need to get use to smashing your bits into each other wearing speedos. I have to admit, that affected me enough to forget about trying out.
I was never a homophobe, but being in HS the peer pressure was always there to be "popular".
Oh come on, do you try to find ways to feel offended on behalf of humanity?
No, and I'm not sure how anything I wrote would have caused you to come to that conclusion.
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I went to a gay bar with a lesbian friend… guys who approached me couldn’t believe I WASN’T gay and thought I was just not interested in them
That couldn't possibly have been caused by the fact that the majority of men or women who frequent gay bars are not, in fact, straight, could it?
Quote:
So there, GAY people ALSO make it their business to define someone to be gay. Shocking that PEOPLE try to define PEOPLE in order to help UNDERSTAND them.
You're confusing definition and identification and completely misstating my point. Here, I'll make it easy for you:
Two guys sharing an apartment - it's none of anyone's business if they're gay or not, because this information doesn't impact anyone but these two guys. If you feel the need to define them as gay or not, I feel the need to ask why.
Someone wanting to know whether or not a person they might be interested in is also interested in them - of course this directly impacts both those people and there's nothing wrong with that, otherwise how else would you move this social interaction along? But that's not defining one's sexuality based on external factors, that's direct identification.
Oh come on, do you try to find ways to feel offended on behalf of humanity? I went to a gay bar with a lesbian friend… guys who approached me couldn’t believe I WASN’T gay and thought I was just not interested in them. So there, GAY people ALSO make it their business to define someone to be gay. Shocking that PEOPLE try to define PEOPLE in order to help UNDERSTAND them.
Context though.
It makes sense to want to know someone's orientation if you want to date or sleep with them. Not so much if you want to hire them, invite them to join your softball team, take a class from them, or rent a room from them.
No, and I'm not sure how anything I wrote would have caused you to come to that conclusion.That couldn't possibly have been caused by the fact that the majority of men or women who frequent gay bars are not, in fact, straight, could it?You're confusing definition and identification and completely misstating my point. Here, I'll make it easy for you:
Two guys sharing an apartment - it's none of anyone's business if they're gay or not, because this information doesn't impact anyone but these two guys. If you feel the need to define them as gay or not, I feel the need to ask why.
Someone wanting to know whether or not a person they might be interested in is also interested in them - of course this directly impacts both those people and there's nothing wrong with that, otherwise how else would you move this social interaction along? But that's not defining one's sexuality based on external factors, that's direct identification.
Humans are curious. It makes no difference to my life how your day is going, but if I find myself next to you and ask how your day is going, is that a problem? If I ask whether the kids next to you are yours is that a problem? I don’t think it’s a big deal or a negative to be curious if the neighbor living with another guy is gay. Once I find out I just as quickly stop giving a damn, and move on to wondering about something else. I suppose in my experience I don’t think it’s a big thing, but maybe others less comfortable with either sharing their sexuality or being around someone with a different lifestyle can be triggered and act differently. Shrug
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. I've got one, too. My best friend fled a certain Eastern European country when it invaded a certain other Eastern European country earlier this year. I booked a hotel for them in their stopover point (a Central Asian country that couldn't exactly be counted on as being progressive). Waiting for him in the room were three huge chocolate hearts with his name and mine (twice, for some reason) written on them in fondant. We laughed our asses off about it. I can only imagine how confused the hotel reception was when he showed up there with his wife and two kids.
