Should NYS be split into two states? (New York, Buffalo: 2015, assessors)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
"Why secession? Secession is about reclaiming the economic opportunities upstate has lost and restoring the liberties Upstate residents once enjoyed," the gun group, Shooters Committee on Public Education, said in a statement. "Downstate has dominated upstate for decades, and upstate has no future in a state controlled by New York City's needs and desires."
It's an idea that has many advantages for both upstate and downstate residents. It's also been proposed many times before. Unfortunately, it will never happen.
Two separate states is simply impossible. Congress will never allow another state in the Northeast because it will mean another two Senators from the region. They think the Northeast already has too much power. Sort of the same reason people want the split... NYC wields too much power in the NYS legislature.
The two autonomous region concept is more practical. It also, IMO, has more problems. I can not conceive any scenario where an extra layer of government reduces costs. That means taxes WILL increase as more political power domains are created. I have read through the proposals and followed this concept. Looks like a good theory, but in practice it is simply more politicians, more layers of government and more ways to rip-off the taxpayers.
Either event causes shifts in power. This is something every entrenched politician will fight against... and these are the same people who will have to act to make it happen.
What I don't understand is how this story becomes "news" on a periodic basis.
The basic problem with this is that "Upstate" is not homogenous.
In fact, Westchester is considered "downstate" to people in Utica, and people in the Adirondacks consider everything south of them to be "downstate."
There is no one media market for upstate New York. Every upstate city listens to its own bullhorn. People in Syracuse have very little idea of what is going on in Rochester, and vice versa - and they're only 60 miles apart.
You can't foster a secession movement based on such a fragmented population.
Aw, the poor babies are upset because most New Yorkers don't buy into their agenda of Right Wing Republicanism, guns, and exploiting natural resources, so they want to form their very own state! It ain't happenin'.
It's an idea that has many advantages for both upstate and downstate residents. It's also been proposed many times before. Unfortunately, it will never happen.
Two separate states is simply impossible. Congress will never allow another state in the Northeast because it will mean another two Senators from the region. They think the Northeast already has too much power. Sort of the same reason people want the split... NYC wields too much power in the NYS legislature.
The two autonomous region concept is more practical. It also, IMO, has more problems. I can not conceive any scenario where an extra layer of government reduces costs. That means taxes WILL increase as more political power domains are created. I have read through the proposals and followed this concept. Looks like a good theory, but in practice it is simply more politicians, more layers of government and more ways to rip-off the taxpayers.
Either event causes shifts in power. This is something every entrenched politician will fight against... and these are the same people who will have to act to make it happen.
What I don't understand is how this story becomes "news" on a periodic basis.
It's an idea that has absolutely NO advantages for Upstate. Upstate NY would become an economic basket case on the level of Mississippi, West Virginia, and New Mexico if it was ever cut off from the revenue stream that is NYC and environs.
This secessionism bull crap surfaces in just about every state where there are large metros that dominate the political process because dudes living out in the hinterlands think that 1,000 rural residents should have as much political clout as 10,000 or 100,000 urban residents. It doesn't work that way since the SCOTUS declared that state legislatures have to be based on one person/one vote, especially since something like 80% of all Americans and 90% of New Yorkers live in urban areas.
Guaranteed that if Upstate became a separate state that the same morons whining about NYC would start whining about Buffalo and the other big cities dominating the Southern Tier, and want to secede again.
Maybe a better way to revitalize upstate is not secession, but to simplify government. Since moving upstate, I have noticed the huge layers of government and the resulting enormous amount of waste. There are school district, fire district, village government, town government, county government, just to name a few. All of these bulge with officials patiently awaiting their generous pensions. What is the point of separate village and town governments? Unless there is unincorporated land, what's the point of county government?
Quote:
“You in Westchester don’t just have county government and local government,” says Stamford, Connecticut, Mayor Dannel Malloy. “You have local government and local government and local government and local government. At one point, you could live in Westchester and have sixteen different taxing entities represented on your tax bill, from fire departments with concurrent jurisdiction, to educational systems with concurrent jurisdiction. It doesn’t sound terribly efficient.”
Maybe a better way to revitalize upstate is not secession, but to simplify government. Since moving upstate, I have noticed the huge layers of government and the resulting enormous amount of waste. There are school district, fire district, village government, town government, county government, just to name a few. All of these bulge with officials patiently awaiting their generous pensions. What is the point of separate village and town governments? Unless there is unincorporated land, what's the point of county government?
I think that you have to be realistic in how much can be saved by government "consolidation". Keep in mind that fire districts, sewer districts, etc really aren't actual layers of government but areas that receive a specified service which the taxpayers in that area fund. The administration of these districts is generally done by the town or county.
There has been a movement in recent years to "unincorporate" or dissolve village, with the advocates promising large tax savings. The fact is that there is seldom a noticeable tax decrease when a village folds into a town because the residents still have to pay for village services like water, sewer, sidewalks, street lights, etc that residents of the town don't get. If a village has a debt for building a new sewage treatment plant, that debt doesn't get transferred to all town residents. Rather, the town creates a sewer district or special assessment district encompassing the former village.
One of the favorite phrases that consolidation advocates use is "duplication of services" which implies that village, town, and county governments are all doing the same thing for the same people. That's not the case at all. Highway departments may all snow plow roads but they don't plow the same roads. Villages take care of theirs, and the town pays the village for any town roads that run through the village. Counties pay the towns for plowing the county routes that run through them, and the state pays the counties to plow state roads there. Would it really be more efficient if all snowplowing decisions in Erie County were made in Buffalo? My guess is that residents of places like Springville or Boston or Silver Creek wouldn't think so. I seriously doubt that it would save much money, either. The village/town garages, equipment, and personnel would simply be absorbed into county government which would, of course, require more supervisors.
I think the sensible alternative is to share services/expertise. Smaller, rural counties like Cattaraugus and Chautauqua already provide services to the towns so that they don't have to do them. A good example is assessment where the county maintains the database and provides assessment software and guidelines, enabling towns to hire part-time assessors. Right now, Jamestown and Chautauqua County are considering consolidating the Jamestown PD and the County Sheriff's Office. It seems to me that the county providing accounting/auditing services to towns and villages would be a great idea because it would not only save money but prevent the instances of embezzlement that we often read about in small towns.
I think LI would be first in line to split before upstate.
It might if it were actually about home rule, but the reality is that this group of "secessionists" is simply po'd because the majority of NYS residents don't buy into their narrow and narrow-minded agenda -- last year before the Supreme Court ruling on marriage equality NYS passing its own marriage equality law was also on their agenda. They want to take their ball and go home because they can't win with the way they play the game ... only the ball isn't theirs!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
