Official Coronavirus Thread (any other threads made about coronavirus will be closed) (lenders, air pollution)
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That's exactly what is going on now. But the federal government cannot order the states to do things. Hell, even when President Trump floated the idea of a limited quarantine of NY, NJ, and CT (I'd imagine this would be a travel ban and not an actual in house quarantine, which the feds could not do), we saw Cuomo threaten legal action and condemn the plan.
So the federal government is coordinating resources (delivering ventilators--NYC just got a delivery of thousands of ventilators from the feds; building makeshift hospitals--Trump already used federal funds to build the thousands bed Javits Center hospital and has authorized the construction of 4 others in the outer borough; delivering millions of masks and gowns to hospitals; passing relief bills that gives many billions to hospitals among other things; delivering federal military support via USNS Mercy and USNS Comfort, and via support from Army medical and the Army Corp of Engineers; etc.
But given that the federal government cannot force states' hands, no, the federal government cannot fend off a pandemic. Not on its own. It needs the support and cooperation of the federal government.
The federal government does have certain rights to order things--but the more important thing is that the federal government has the resources to monitor such things and develop plans and coordinate multiple agencies in action. If the federal government does not communicate the projected severity of the issue, then of course, states and municipalities don't have the information to go on nor know what to do. That's the whole point of having a coordinating federal agency--so you actually have the ability to show states and municipalities the rationale for why you would be doing such.
The federal government has been gearing up now, but that's the whole issue--it's still gearing up. The pandemic could've been much more strongly mitigated far earlier than what ultimately ended up happening. These are pretty late steps, and we lost a lot of crucial early time from influential parts of the federal government dithering on this even when the actual technical expertise and data was showing otherwise. This kind of gross miscommunication is fun for politics, but there are simply parts of reality that do not play politics. This country has an odd relationship with rational, scientific thought and belief in actual technical expertise.
We will have more data obviously later in this year tu know the true effects. It’s a little early for that.
Well sure, I mean obviously, like any industry or market, real estate is impacted by the pandemic, but that is not as you point out peculiar to New York. Properties on the market right now have suspended showings pretty much everywhere. The whole planet is on shutdown mode.
There will be a period post-virus that may prove harsh due to a cooler attitude to buying, but this recoil is normal under the circumstances.
I think that this event serves as a test for other national and global scale catastrophes to come.
We need engineering solutions to curb the use of non-renewable resources, restrain our consumption of plastics where renewables could replace them. Likewise, accounting on a vast scale to enable a relative sublimation of the effects of pandemics on the macro-economy, that is what needs to happen.
The federal government does have certain rights to order things--but the more important thing is that the federal government has the resources to monitor such things and develop plans and coordinate multiple agencies in action. If the federal government does not communicate the projected severity of the issue, then of course, states and municipalities don't have the information to go on nor know what to do. That's the whole point of having a coordinating federal agency--so you actually have the ability to show states and municipalities the rationale for why you would be doing such.
The federal government has been gearing up now, but that's the whole issue--it's still gearing up. The pandemic could've been much more strongly mitigated far earlier than what ultimately ended up happening. These are pretty late steps, and we lost a lot of crucial early time from influential parts of the federal government dithering on this even when the actual technical expertise and data was showing otherwise. This kind of gross miscommunication is fun for politics, but there are simply parts of reality that do not play politics.
Do tell me what the federal government can order the states to do. The Supreme Court has already ruled multiple times that the 10th Amendment prohibits the federal government from forcing (or even unduly coercing) states to implement federal law or policy. Heck, this is why states and localities are able to enact sanctuary city policies in defiance of federal immigration law, just as one example. And that's why the Medicaid expansion under Obamacare was deemed unconstitutional by the Supreme Court (states can still opt into it, but they no longer risk losing money if they choose to not opt into the expansion). Now, the federal government can order states to NOT take certain affirmative actions that would be preempted by federal authority, but that is a different thing entirely.
And do tell me how the federal government has not been monitoring things and developing and coordinating multiple agencies into action. The federal government has communicated the severity of the situation for a while now. The CDC has issued guidelines (which most states are adopting, but again its their choice to do so) and continues to update these guidelines for best practices to limit the spread of this thing (the first CDC guidelines went out on February 7, almost 2 months ago).
The coronavirus response team--which includes FEMA, the CDC, NIH, and other federal agencies and departments--is working directly with the states and gathering information in order to ensure efficient resource allocation. I already mentioned some of the things that the federal government has moved forward with in that regard as far as hospitals, funds, equipment (ventilators, masks and other PPE, etc.), and the like.
Look, if you're arguing that some things could have been done better, I won't argue with that. But some statements that you're making are just factually inaccurate and ignore the reality on the ground.
Well sure, I mean obviously, like any industry or market, real estate is impacted by the pandemic, but that is not as you point out peculiar to New York. Properties on the market right now have suspended showings pretty much everywhere. The whole planet is on shutdown mode.
There will be a period post-virus that may prove harsh due to a cooler attitude to buying, but this recoil is normal under the circumstances.
I think that this event serves as a test for other national and global scale catastrophes to come.
We need engineering solutions to curb the use of non-renewable resources, restrain our consumption of plastics where renewables could replace them. Likewise, accounting on a vast scale to enable a relative sublimation of the effects of pandemics on the macro-economy needs to happen.
No, it’s hitting other major cities hard that also normally get a lot of tourists and whose economies are mostly closed.
Do tell me what the federal government can order the states to do. The Supreme Court has already ruled multiple times that the 10th Amendment prohibits the federal government from forcing (or even unduly coercing) states to implement federal law or policy. Heck, this is why states and localities are able to enact sanctuary city policies in defiance of federal immigration law, just as one example. And that's why the Medicaid expansion under Obamacare was deemed unconstitutional by the Supreme Court (states can still opt into it, but they no longer risk losing money if they choose to not opt into the expansion). Now, the federal government can order states to NOT take certain affirmative actions that would be preempted by federal authority, but that is a different thing entirely.
And do tell me how the federal government has not been monitoring things and developing and coordinating multiple agencies into action. The federal government has communicated the severity of the situation for a while now. The CDC has issued guidelines (which most states are adopting, but again its their choice to do so) and continues to update these guidelines for best practices to limit the spread of this thing (the first CDC guidelines went out on February 7, almost 2 months ago).
The coronavirus response team--which includes FEMA, the CDC, NIH, and other federal agencies and departments--is working directly with the states and gathering information in order to ensure efficient resource allocation. I already mentioned some of the things that the federal government has moved forward with in that regard as far as hospitals, funds, equipment (ventilators, masks and other PPE, etc.), and the like.
Look, if you're arguing that some things could have been done better, I won't argue with that. But some statements that you're making are just factually inaccurate and ignore the reality on the ground.
What is the main point that I made? Go ahead, let me see if you can at least voice it back to me so I can believe we're arguing on the same basis.
I'm in no way saying that the federal government can run roughshod over the states--and it should not have to at any point, right? How did you jump from "the federal government have certain rights to order things" to they can mandate anything they want?
This is not just a minor things could have been done better--there are many points in the timeline, well before this pandemic but relating to it, that were some pretty incredibly goofy moves. This isn't just a few missteps on a federal level and this isn't some odd chaos theory large set of differential equations accidentally triggering one to another, but direction missteps that are incredibly short-sighted and then spur of the moment decisions in the midst that don't seem very well thought out.
That's exactly what is going on now, and that is exactly what FEMA is for. But the federal government cannot order the states to do things. Hell, even when President Trump floated the idea of a limited quarantine of NY, NJ, and CT (I'd imagine this would be a travel ban and not an actual in house quarantine, which the feds could not do), we saw Cuomo threaten legal action and condemn the plan.
So the federal government is coordinating resources (delivering ventilators--NYC just got a delivery of thousands of ventilators from the feds; building makeshift hospitals--Trump already used federal funds to build the thousands bed Javits Center hospital and has authorized the construction of 4 others in the outer borough; delivering millions of masks and gowns to hospitals; passing relief bills that gives many billions to hospitals among other things; delivering federal military support via USNS Mercy and USNS Comfort, and via support from Army medical and the Army Corp of Engineers; etc.
But given that the federal government cannot force states' hands, no, the federal government cannot fend off a pandemic. Not on its own. It needs the support and cooperation of the states.
After the epidemic has set a world record, and after the titanic hit the iceberg...
you are clueless, as clueless as the leader (aka mr orange man) you blindly follow & defend if not more... you typed a lot of lame arguments here that helped nobody but to reveal how ignorant/blind you are about how this chinavirus epidemic got so out of control here in NYC/US...
What is the main point that I made? Go ahead, let me see if you can at least voice it back to me so I can believe we're arguing on the same basis.
I'm in no way saying that the federal government can run roughshod over the states--and it should not have to at any point, right?
This is not just a minor things could have been done better--there are many points in the timeline, well before this pandemic but relating to it, that were some pretty incredibly goofy moves. This isn't just a few missteps on a federal level and this isn't some odd chaos theory large set of differential equations accidentally triggering one to another, but direction missteps that are incredibly short-sighted and then spur of the moment decisions in the midst that don't seem very well thought out.
You stated just a few posts ago:
Quote:
You need to drop this. It’s annoying and dumb, and I’m someone who has repeatedly on this forum expressed a pretty pronounced antipathy to both of those people. A global pandemic can essentially only be fended off by a prepared and functional federal government response. A state by state, or city by city, monitoring and coordinating agency by themselves would be ridiculous. The US on a federal level needs to again create a coordinating federal agency that monitors and develops plans as a national response and coordinates other agencies and levels of government. This has been pretty apparent in how useful it is via the countries that had such—it was also the rationale for why we had created such an agency in the past. You just ranting the same things over and over again without any kind of real thought put into this is just noise.
The federal government already has such an agency and has been coordinating with the states for almost two months now.
You then claimed that the federal government can order states to do certain things, which is not correct.
While you have also more recently shifted your position to hold that the federal government could have done better (and I'm not arguing with that), your earlier posts show you didn't believe that the federal government had a coordinating agency that "monitors and develops plans as a national response and coordinates other agencies and levels of government" or was producing any output. I've explained that the federal government has such an agency and listed out concrete examples of outputs that are being delivered due to this coordinating effort.
After the epidemic has set a world record, and after the titanic hit the iceberg...
you are clueless, as clueless as the leader (aka mr orange man) you blindly follow & defend if not more... you typed a lot of lame arguments here that helped nobody but to reveal how ignorant/blind you are about how this chinavirus epidemic got so out of control here in NYC/US...
nuff said...
Another Orange.Man.Bad post. Go figure
You lost all credibility on this issue when you chose to believe and push the PRC's lies on how its handling the situation as some sort of international model Your hyperbole and distortions here don't add to that credibility.
A gentleman I know passed away from COVID19 this past Saturday. He had no respiratory symptoms. The disease attacked his diabetes. For about 10 days his doctors were unable to control his sugar. He would be at 300, then bottom out. The cylce would repeat itself a few hours later. He was in the hospital for a few days. They released him. He was complaining he didn't feel good. They did test him at the hospital, but they lost the first test. He was retested this past Friday. He died Saturday afternoon. The hospital called them at 9:30 that night unaware he had passed away to inform them that the test was positive. To make an already sad situation even more sad. Our mutual friend who is an FDNY dispatcher took the 911 call and dispatched the ambulance.
As far as funeral arrangements go. One hour wake, immediate family only. That group will be rotated in and out if it reaches more than X amount of people.
It's terrible. His daughter is the type of person that drops everything for everyone and we can't be there for her during this horrible time.
If you are a diabetic be warned, you are in grave danger. Stay home.
...it's way too early to sing and dance to cheer a minor sign of "slowdown" in the numbers that have been skyrocketing...
it doesn't mean anything for the control of the epidemic when you have daily numbers dropped from thousands to hundreds for such a contagious chinavirus...
- you need to absolutely eliminate it, until after everyone has been infected and gained immunity...
...otherwise, any single pt carrying this damn thing will have the capacity to spark a new wave of epidemic...unless you are ready to follow the social distancing as ongoing now forever...
in china, surgical masks have been part of their wardrobe for years. (now, NO one leaves home with out it period).
here too--for years now, lots of surgical mask people walking around.
where tony manero lived, ate pizza, cruised around. is this the future of my brokenlyn:
we now have to think about: 'oh, should i go out with a mask on? i'm only running to the store?
or be out for an hour or so (or maybe longer)?
should i continue to use gloves too ? i can't go out like i have been for years? in the raw.....
or, i forgot, i wasn't standing exactly 6-ft from that guy.....
or, i forgot my mask. now what ? ewwww.... am i gonna get the virus? - i'm paranoid now about being outside (where i've walked for decades),
i'm going home now...(i never did get what i wanted outside...what was it again)?
OMG..
it's nuts. (that we've evolved to this point).
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Your hyperbole and distortions here don't add to that credibility.
