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].This is a false equivalence of the most primitive order. The flu cannot be transmitted "silently", the flu kills literally an order of magnitude less people per year than Covid did in its first 365 days, there are vaccines readily available against flu (and major flu outbreaks DO shut down schools) and there is no such thing as “long flu”.
But that is also an invalid comparison since we have no record of how many people the flu killed in its first 365 days.
To compare COVID to the flu, you would have to compare covid deaths after a hundred or so years of it being around. New diseases will always initially kill more people than ancient diseases.
Not sure what you mean by the flu cannot be transmitted silently - it can be transmitted by people who do not know they have the flo and are not showing symptoms. The transmission of the flu does not make any sound.
The question is whether we are going to shut down our economy every time a new disease comes around? If we do, we are likely to kill more people that way than the diseases will. Also by shutting down, we extend the life cycle of the disease, because people do not build immunity to it.
To look at the impact of a shut down, you need to look at the overall long term run of the disease. Weekly, monthly or even yearly infection and death rates are not really relevant. So you would need to compare the overall hospitalization and death rate per capita between a state that shut down and one that didn't for the entire duration of the disease. Even then, there are additional factors that will apply. For example Michigan and Ohio. In Michigan people seem to have less faith in their government than Ohio. Thus, Ohio with lesser government restrictions still may get higher levels of compliance. Which is one possible explanation for part of the reason Ohio's results are so much better than Michigan's even with substantially less and shorter restrictions.
Realistically,, even though "scientists" are loathe to admit it, there are too many variables to allow statistical data to tell us much about anything when it comes to COVID.
But that is also an invalid comparison since we have no record of how many people the flu killed in its first 365 days.
To compare COVID to the flu, you would have to compare covid deaths after a hundred or so years of it being around. New diseases will always initially kill more people than ancient diseases.
Not sure what you mean by the flu cannot be transmitted silently - it can be transmitted by people who do not know they have the flo and are not showing symptoms. The transmission of the flu does not make any sound.
The question is whether we are going to shut down our economy every time a new disease comes around? If we do, we are likely to kill more people that way than the diseases will. Also by shutting down, we extend the life cycle of the disease, because people do not build immunity to it.
To look at the impact of a shut down, you need to look at the overall long term run of the disease. Weekly, monthly or even yearly infection and death rates are not really relevant. So you would need to compare the overall hospitalization and death rate per capita between a state that shut down and one that didn't for the entire duration of the disease. Even then, there are additional factors that will apply. For example Michigan and Ohio. In Michigan people seem to have less faith in their government than Ohio. Thus, Ohio with lesser government restrictions still may get higher levels of compliance. Which is one possible explanation for part of the reason Ohio's results are so much better than Michigan's even with substantially less and shorter restrictions.
Realistically,, even though "scientists" are loathe to admit it, there are too many variables to allow statistical data to tell us much about anything when it comes to COVID.
What is the primary point being made here?
You know that Covid is more dangerous than the flu. Before flu symptoms appear, it's minimally contagious. Relatively few die from influenza compared to Covid. There is no such phenomenon as long haul influenza.
That we needn't be concerned about more severe, contagious mutations of Covid? Should we ignore it and just let people get sick...especially if mutations cause more severe illness and impact more people, demographically?
Wouldn't a lot of deaths and severe illness have a huge impact on the economy as well as mental health?
Doesn't it make sense to beat it down while we still have the opportunity, through vaccinations?
We aren't being trapped in our homes right now, we can go shopping, restaurants, get hair services, get together with family and friends, once we are vaccinated...especially since the weather is warming up and we can gather outside safely.
But that is also an invalid comparison since we have no record of how many people the flu killed in its first 365 days.
OK. I am, once again, not sure if you're agreeing with me or not. Comparing COVID and flu is asinine, so is the suggestion we need to compare COVID today with the first ever year of flu. This isn't academic, this is the real world. And in the real world flu is infinitely more curable and preventable than COVID and far less deadly, full stop.
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Not sure what you mean by the flu cannot be transmitted silently - it can be transmitted by people who do not know they have the flo and are not showing symptoms. The transmission of the flu does not make any sound.
I didn't realize you of all people needed to have metaphors spelled out for you, but OK. Only 1/3 of flu cases are transmitted asymptomatically (I honestly didn't realize it was even this high, so I learned something today); the same figure for COVID is 59%.
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The question is whether we are going to shut down our economy every time a new disease comes around? If we do, we are likely to kill more people that way than the diseases will. Also by shutting down, we extend the life cycle of the disease, because people do not build immunity to it.
And the answer is that there is no answer. If a disease comes along that has no cure, a high R and a high death rate, yeah, we will shut down our economy for some time in the effort to save lives. But there are variables to every one of these scenarios - there is no hard and fast rule and it's unrealistic to expect it.
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A politician making seemingly dumb decisions (which, in retrospect, it may look as though Whitmer did a year ago, if we consider returning to the topic at hand) was a product of minimally available information. If your major qualm with her was an inability to play tennis for a few weeks, I'd say you're dealing with a VERY first-world problem. I am loath to engage in these types of comparisons, but there are STILL countries (developed ones, like Spain) around the world that mandate masks be worn OUTSIDE. There are others (Russia), which have 500K EXTRA deaths in 2020, either from COVID itself or from hospitals overflowing, that have opened high-risk events to all comers and continue to suppress true statistics. Maybe put your plight (the nature of which you still haven't shared with us) in perspective.
Last edited by highlanderfil; 03-23-2021 at 11:30 AM..
The flu is different I will agree but Covid still has 99.7 recovery rate. Now with the vaccine it will be even higher especially since the ones who didn’t recover were seniors
We can’t go by when or if a variant with the vaccine will cause problems. It’s about now because like I said there will always be if diseases or variants. People want to go by facts and data but then when facts show something they don’t like and they go well this may happen. There is no scientific data now if there becomes a problem then things may need to change
Someone stated we’re not talking years about restrictions but we are it’s already been a year
The point is the vaccine is here and the most at risk population has or is about to get the vaccine
Then things should be open fully
Your average person who doesn’t have underlying conditions and is under 65 is not having major problems from this. An average healthy person can die from chicken pox or the flu but the percent is low. 80 percent of Covid deaths were from elderly and I imagine the other 20 a huge percent was people with underlying issues
Since Covid the deaths in children is down yet some schools are not fully open. There is no evidence or data showing teachers are at risk and now they can get the vaccine
If people like teachers were going to lose their jobs if they didn’t go back and there was no government financial assistance everyone would be pushing back to normalcy
We have a big problem with a variant RIGHT NOW, especially in Michigan and Florida. That is why cases have increased so much over the past weeks. As more people develop Covid, they also are encouraging the spread of other, more dangerous variants. This is happening NOW.
I have a strong feeling we are going to be rolling back things again here pretty shortly, likely by Easter. I also think that most schools will be going back to being fully remote after the spring breaks over the next 2 weeks.
I have a strong feeling we are going to be rolling back things again here pretty shortly, likely by Easter. I also think that most schools will be going back to being fully remote after the spring breaks over the next 2 weeks.
Agree on schools, but not so sure on other things. I think even Gretch knows that the appetite for taking steps backward is extremely low at this point, especially with vaccinations increasing every day.
The flu is different I will agree but Covid still has 99.7 recovery rate. Now with the vaccine it will be even higher especially since the ones who didn’t recover were seniors
This is false. Completely and totally false. This idiocy is one of the most favorite anti-vaxxer tropes and it's easy to disprove with simple arithmetic. An 0.3% death (let's ignore the effects of long Covid for a minute) rate would mean that 50% of Americans have already had Covid (extrapolated based on the 500-some thousand who have already died). This is not the case.
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We can’t go by when or if a variant with the vaccine will cause problems. It’s about now because like I said there will always be if diseases or variants. People want to go by facts and data but then when facts show something they don’t like and they go well this may happen.
And once again you're ignoring the science. The vaccination rate is currently insufficient to stop the spread of the variants which are (1) more infectious, (2) deadlier, (3) more vaccine-resistant and, like mgkeith mentioned, (4) are increasing cases RIGHT NOW.
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There is no scientific data now if there becomes a problem then things may need to change
And this is exactly why we have so many problems in society - people who only want to treat a problem once it manifests itself, rather than prevent it happening in the first place.
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Someone stated we’re not talking years about restrictions but we are it’s already been a year
And it might well be another one or two of intermittent restrictions if people en masse don't pull their head out of their collective ass and quit thinking the pandemic is over. It's not.
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The point is the vaccine is here and the most at risk population has or is about to get the vaccine
Then things should be open fully
Less than half of those 65 or older have been vaccinated to date. It will take months before everyone at risk is fully vaccinated, to say nothing of those who will absolutely, under no circumstances not get the shot and in doing so will help the variants grow and spread.
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Your average person who doesn’t have underlying conditions and is under 65 is not having major problems from this. An average healthy person can die from chicken pox or the flu but the percent is low. 80 percent of Covid deaths were from elderly and I imagine the other 20 a huge percent was people with underlying issues
This is also 100% incorrect. Most people with long COVID are, in fact, those who do not have any underlying conditions. Once again, you continue to ignore this. Death is NOT the only issue here.
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Since Covid the deaths in children is down yet some schools are not fully open. There is no evidence or data showing teachers are at risk and now they can get the vaccine
Schools are continuing to open; many are open prematurely because parents can't take having their kids at home anymore. Teachers may be vaccinated (although, again, the % is likely even lower as of right now than that of seniors), but not everyone is vaccinated at home. Kids may not show symptoms or become severely ill, but they CAN take the virus back home to mom and dad.
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If people like teachers were going to lose their jobs if they didn’t go back and there was no government financial assistance everyone would be pushing back to normalcy
What is the end game you're pursuing here? Is it to say that everything is hunky-dory and we should stop whining, shed the masks and other PPE and go back to licking door knobs at gas station bathrooms? What are you trying to prove?
This is false. Completely and totally false. This idiocy is one of the most favorite anti-vaxxer tropes and it's easy to disprove with simple arithmetic. An 0.3% death (let's ignore the effects of long Covid for a minute) rate would mean that 50% of Americans have already had Covid (extrapolated based on the 500-some thousand who have already died). This is not the case.And once again you're ignoring the science. The vaccination rate is currently insufficient to stop the spread of the variants which are (1) more infectious, (2) deadlier, (3) more vaccine-resistant and, like mgkeith mentioned, (4) are increasing cases RIGHT NOW. And this is exactly why we have so many problems in society - people who only want to treat a problem once it manifests itself, rather than prevent it happening in the first place.And it might well be another one or two of intermittent restrictions if people en masse don't pull their head out of their collective ass and quit thinking the pandemic is over. It's not.Less than half of those 65 or older have been vaccinated to date. It will take months before everyone at risk is fully vaccinated, to say nothing of those who will absolutely, under no circumstances not get the shot and in doing so will help the variants grow and spread.This is also 100% incorrect. Most people with long COVID are, in fact, those who do not have any underlying conditions. Once again, you continue to ignore this. Death is NOT the only issue here.Schools are continuing to open; many are open prematurely because parents can't take having their kids at home anymore. Teachers may be vaccinated (although, again, the % is likely even lower as of right now than that of seniors), but not everyone is vaccinated at home. Kids may not show symptoms or become severely ill, but they CAN take the virus back home to mom and dad.What is the end game you're pursuing here? Is it to say that everything is hunky-dory and we should stop whining, shed the masks and other PPE and go back to licking door knobs at gas station bathrooms? What are you trying to prove?
Wow you have an attitude in your response
I’m not saying to not wash your hands or to be careful
What I am saying is it’s time to open fully
If a variant becomes deadly with the vaccine then it would be different.
There has been no Covid deaths after the vaccine regardless of variant or severe illness. If you get it the symptoms are mild
Private schools have been open and again facts show their not spreading it to parents or teachers
I’m assuming you don’t own a business impacted and I’m assuming your job has not been impacted
Or you are getting enough assistance which some are not
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