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I'm one of the minority; I believe that the vaccine is safe and strongly recommend it. I believe that the virus was radically overblown.
I agree re: the vaccine, but don't think the virus was "radically overblown." There's objective data to back that up. It's been one of the leading causes of death in the U.S. for several years running now. 3 years ago at this point, we were only starting to hear whispers of a brand-new virus out of China and as of today, it has killed over 1.1 Million Americans and pushed our healthcare system to the brink of collapse. It doesn't seem like a lot of people fully appreciate the magnitude of that figure. It was, by all metrics, a full-blown crisis.
Now, that doesn't mean there haven't been major faults in the handling of the virus. Politics (on all sides) often superseded the best available information. Early travel bans and border closures were leveraged for political advantage (i.e. quickly stopping travel from China while leaving the borders open for Italy and other countries with rapidly rising cases). Some restrictions were left in place long after they were needed (or proven to be less effective) to be to project images of being caring and compliant (outdoor mask mandates in particular stand out in my mind).The constant politicization of the virus lead to major rifts between people and undoubtedly contributed to the loss of life from the virus. On the other hand, the constant doom and gloom messaging and the often unnecessary restrictions lead to depression and isolation which have amplified an already growing mental health crisis which we'll be dealing with for some time to come. There needed to be a balanced approach and we never came anywhere close.
And the public health messaging was often fairly poor. The discussion around the vaccines is the most glaring example to me. Early in their development, the vaccines were touted (at very high levels) as "the end of COVID" - they'd prevent spread and infection and we'd be able to return to normal as soon as a majority of Americans received their shots. After the initial vaccine launch, health officials had to repeatedly walk back the early lofty claims about the vaccines and how they work. While there's no question that vaccines are effective in that they reduce spread (even if they don't prevent it) and limit the severity of infection, that's not how they were sold to the public early on and the failure to match early claims has not helped public opinion of or trust in "science" and public health messaging. Especially when paired with all of the politicized rhetoric around COVID.
I agree re: the vaccine, but don't think the virus was "radically overblown." There's objective data to back that up. It's been one of the leading causes of death in the U.S. for several years running now. 3 years ago at this point, we were only starting to hear whispers of a brand-new virus out of China and as of today, it has killed over 1.1 Million Americans and pushed our healthcare system to the brink of collapse. It doesn't seem like a lot of people fully appreciate the magnitude of that figure. It was, by all metrics, a full-blown crisis.
CNN medical analyst and Washington Post columnist Dr. Leana Wen admitted in a column, Friday, that the medical community is “overcounting” the amount of “COVID deaths and hospitalizations.”
Wen, who writes an occasional Washington Post column providing her observations on the pandemic, masking and other COVID-related subjects, cited sources claiming that most “patients diagnosed with COVID are actually in the hospital for some other illness.”
The article is titled, “We are overcounting COVID deaths and hospitalizations. That’s a problem.”
But before you sniff, "New York Post" a similar article, How to stop overcounting covid deaths and hospitalizations, probably paywalled, appeared in the liberal Washington Post. I have always believed instinctively that the alarmists were overstating their case since if their views were true people would voluntarily lock down. They haven't been, and people are not dropping like flies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox
Now, that doesn't mean there haven't been major faults in the handling of the virus. Politics (on all sides) often superseded the best available information. Early travel bans and border closures were leveraged for political advantage (i.e. quickly stopping travel from China while leaving the borders open for Italy and other countries with rapidly rising cases). Some restrictions were left in place long after they were needed (or proven to be less effective) to be to project images of being caring and compliant (outdoor mask mandates in particular stand out in my mind). The constant politicization of the virus lead to major rifts between people and undoubtedly contributed to the loss of life from the virus. On the other hand, the constant doom and gloom messaging and the often unnecessary restrictions lead to depression and isolation which have amplified an already growing mental health crisis which we'll be dealing with for some time to come. There needed to be a balanced approach and we never came anywhere close.
And the public health messaging was often fairly poor. The discussion around the vaccines is the most glaring example to me. Early in their development, the vaccines were touted (at very high levels) as "the end of COVID" - they'd prevent spread and infection and we'd be able to return to normal as soon as a majority of Americans received their shots. After the initial vaccine launch, health officials had to repeatedly walk back the early lofty claims about the vaccines and how they work. While there's no question that vaccines are effective in that they reduce spread (even if they don't prevent it) and limit the severity of infection, that's not how they were sold to the public early on and the failure to match early claims has not helped public opinion of or trust in "science" and public health messaging. Especially when paired with all of the politicized rhetoric around COVID.
I totally agree with that part of your post. I do think that when the Omicron variant hit the headlines in November 2021, our "re-lockdown" occurred in large part because the public had not been psychologically prepared for a return to normal. I suspect after that secondary, softer lockdown people at that point simply had no appetite for further restrictions, and were prepared to "let it rip." Back in May 2020 nobody had the courage to do that though that probably would have been the right thing.
Even today, in White Plains when I drove to work I saw someone walking no closer than 100 feet from any other person, outdoors, wearing a heavy, black mask. In synagogue Friday night, out of about 45 people in attendance, I saw about six masked faces, including one on the bima (sp) who was no closer than 20 feet away from the Rabbi and a lot further from other worshipers. Strangely, he took the mask off when addressing the congregation with weekly announcements and then put the mask back on. Some people just cannot let go.
But before you sniff, "New York Post" a similar article, How to stop overcounting covid deaths and hospitalizations, probably paywalled, appeared in the liberal Washington Post. I have always believed instinctively that the alarmists were overstating their case since if their views were true people would voluntarily lock down. They haven't been, and people are not dropping like flies.
People knew that a long time ago. There was corruption with COVID in many areas one being they counted people who died with COVID as dying of COVID where there is a big difference. The six feet apart was made up .the lockdowns were a human rights violation. Pfizer knew the vaccine did not stop transmission.lying and corruption full force. I heard one doctor say never go by the United States data it's usually wrong where the United kingdom data is more accurate.
But before you sniff, "New York Post" a similar article, How to stop overcounting covid deaths and hospitalizations, probably paywalled, appeared in the liberal Washington Post. I have always believed instinctively that the alarmists were overstating their case since if their views were true people would voluntarily lock down. They haven't been, and people are not dropping like flies.
At this point, issues with how cases/deaths are recorded are not new. In fact, back in 2021, Mass. DPH changed how they record hospitalizations ("hospitalized primarily with COVID" vs. "hospitalized with COVID" precisely to address this issue). So it's entirely possible that COVID deaths have been overcounted. It's also entirely possible that COVID deaths are undercounted. Excess deaths spiked drastically alongside the rise of COVID and several studies indicate that we may have missed hundreds of thousands of COVID deaths in our tallies. We'll probably never get a crystal clear picture of exactly how many people COVID is responsible for killing. The reality is probably somewhere in the middle.
But even if the truth is extreme scenario - that we're overcounting COVID deaths by 50, 60, or even 70%, we're still talking about an absolute minimum of around 400,000 Americans dead because of a virus that didn't exist 3 years ago. No matter how you want to slice it, that's a huge deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa
Even today, in White Plains when I drove to work I saw someone walking no closer than 100 feet from any other person, outdoors, wearing a heavy, black mask. In synagogue Friday night, out of about 45 people in attendance, I saw about six masked faces, including one on the bima (sp) who was no closer than 20 feet away from the Rabbi and a lot further from other worshipers. Strangely, he took the mask off when addressing the congregation with weekly announcements and then put the mask back on. Some people just cannot let go.
I wonder how much of this is actual fear, or how much of is other reasoning? I was at a wedding this weekend and two (younger, relatively healthy) guests had N95s on. I was talking to one of them and she said that she was doing it because they leave for an international trip on Tuesday and really didn't want to get sick before they left. They weren't worried about getting really sick, they just wanted to enjoy their trip without dealing with any symptoms at all. It may be mild in most people, but COVID is still pretty contagious and is still not fun to deal with. Especially on vacation. It is also still disproportionately impacting older people and people with health issues, so I can't really fault them for being concerned in certain settings. Masking in public to prevent any illness was pretty common in other parts of the world long before COVID, so I wouldn't be surprised if a little bit of that stuck around here in the U.S. now that we've all had experience with them. I haven't worn a mask outside of my doctor's office and dentist in a long time, but I'd consider it on the train if there's a big spike in cases and I'm leaving for a trip soon or if I had cold and needed to get on the crowded subway. I never would have even thought of it 4 years ago. I don't doubt there's still some fear out there, but I don't think there's all that much.
People knew that a long time ago. There was corruption with COVID in many areas one being they counted people who died with COVID as dying of COVID where there is a big difference. The six feet apart was made up .the lockdowns were a human rights violation. Pfizer knew the vaccine did not stop transmission.lying and corruption full force. I heard one doctor say never go by the United States data it's usually wrong where the United kingdom data is more accurate.
To the bolded, I think that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines caused a major mitigation of the strength and ferocity of the virus. That theoretically should have been explained but that would have been too complex for a large portion of the population.
Other than that I largely agree with your post. I put my actions where my words were by getting vaccinated and boosted as follows:
First vaccine March 2, 2021 at the Javits Center in NYC;
Second vaccine March 23, 2021 at the Javits Center in NYC;
First booster October 27, 2021 in White Plains;
Second booster May 27, 2022 in Valhalla;
Covid (asymptomatic positive) September 2-15, 2022 - delayed third booster;
Third booster January 7, 2023 at CVS in White Plains.
I have been working full blast in my company's law office since June 2, 2020, mostly unmasked.
Those who have been fortunate enough not to have adverse effects from the vaccine won't get it unless they get the vaccine/booster and get sick themselves. Long covid is real and the effects can come from the vaccine as well as covid itself.
Look at the thread "Covid-19 Vaccine Injured of Washington" under the Washington forum, as well as other forums and threads. Denial is for the less informed.
Ya I'll check it out there is a book called unknown cause that addresses the increase in mortality from the vaccine by Ed dowd. A senators daughter died of the vaccine after he pushed the vaccine.
To the bolded, I think that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines caused a major mitigation of the strength and ferocity of the virus. That theoretically should have been explained but that would have been too complex for a large portion of the population.
Other than that I largely agree with your post. I put my actions where my words were by getting vaccinated and boosted as follows:
First vaccine March 2, 2021 at the Javits Center in NYC;
Second vaccine March 23, 2021 at the Javits Center in NYC;
First booster October 27, 2021 in White Plains;
Second booster May 27, 2022 in Valhalla;
Covid (asymptomatic positive) September 2-15, 2022 - delayed third booster;
Third booster January 7, 2023 at CVS in White Plains.
I have been working full blast in my company's law office since June 2, 2020, mostly unmasked.
I never took the vaccine because of doctors and immunologists that spoke about the dangers.i never got sick. I think the virus weakened by natural mutations.
Last edited by justyouraveragetenant; 01-23-2023 at 09:05 AM..
The thing that does not seem to be counted, or counted effectively, are the people who are living with Long Covid.
When I was turning 20 and in college in March 1977 I had a moderately bad case of the flu, and a distressingly long recovery, plagued by significant depression, possibly exacerbated by Tylenol with Codeine to control a rather bad cough. Would we now call that "long influenza"? I suspect many diseases hang around for a while.
Also, when I get a cold, I will have bad congestion, then apparent ending, and then a relapse of a few days. I just think that's what viruses do. I haven't had a bacterial infection in a long time, possibly since I had strep throat when I was three.
When I was turning 20 and in college in March 1977 I had a moderately bad case of the flu, and a distressingly long recovery, plagued by significant depression, possibly exacerbated by Tylenol with Codeine to control a rather bad cough. Would we now call that "long influenza"? I suspect many diseases hang around for a while.
Also, when I get a cold, I will have bad congestion, then apparent ending, and then a relapse of a few days. I just think that's what viruses do. I haven't had a bacterial infection in a long time, possibly since I had strep throat when I was three.
About 10 or so years ago, I had a very bad bought with bronchitis. High fever that lasted for days, a terrible cough and chest congestion. After I recovered, I had (what I call) a squeaky chest for about a year. It honestly took a good year for my lungs to get back to normal. But I wouldn't consider that "Long Bronchitis" or "Long Flu", it just took a long time for my lungs to fully heal, I guess.
However, my brother, who got Covid in April of '20, was in the hospital for months, in a coma on a ventilator, has never fully recovered from the experience. He is permanently disabled from his experience with Covid. He has no stamina, has extreme dizzy spells, can't sleep, has heart palpitations, can't walk more than a couple of yards without having to rest (also has to walk with a cane), among other issues. This has been going on for three years now with no significant improvement in sight. I wonder how many people out there are like him, there really isn' t much data or information out there about people who are struggling like he is.
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