MA Real Estate is CRAZY (Boston, Wayland: purchase, public school, median income)

[yellowstatus]

Originally Posted by sawyer2

Another example of how nuts the market has gone

My wife bought a condo in Brookline soon after graduation in the late 90's and we keep it as a rental. Paid just under 180K for it (10% down) which represented about 3X her full comp. (salary + bonus) at the time. We had someone approach us recently with an all cash offer of $850K.....its not on the market but recent comps support it.

The same 3X comp. would need to be ~$280K today for comparison ..... but somebody in the same field with the same qualifications and experience today would have a comp. of around $100K.

I'm oversimplifying, but in this example your buying power is almost 3X less over that timeframe.

This is more of a reflection of the labor market over the past 20-30 years. Wages have largely stagnated for the 99%, with the top 1% of business owners, asset owners, and professionals with unique skill sets capturing a disproportionate amount of gains. The top 0.1%, own the bulk of assets, want to live in the most desirable cities. This is a global phenomenon. If you believe this trend will continue, it is natural to be very bullish on Boston real estate.

For better or worse, market forces are pushing the middle and upper middle class out of Boston. There is no natural law that prevents such seemingly extreme scenarios from occuring. Back Bay is an extremely desirable location, and prices could very well double again over the next decade.

[bugelrex]

Originally Posted by sawyer2

Another example of how nuts the market has gone

My wife bought a condo in Brookline soon after graduation in the late 90's and we keep it as a rental. Paid just under 180K for it (10% down) which represented about 3X her full comp. (salary + bonus) at the time. We had someone approach us recently with an all cash offer of $850K.....its not on the market but recent comps support it.

The same 3X comp. would need to be ~$280K today for comparison ..... but somebody in the same field with the same qualifications and experience today would have a comp. of around $100K.

I'm oversimplifying, but in this example your buying power is almost 3X less over that timeframe.

Late 90's is a poor example because:
-IRS started allowing home sales tax free(without buying another one). Thus turning homes into investment vehicals
-start of internet age and brand new industries in boston. Think of it like the industrial revolution, created and continues to create tremendous wealth

In other words, without a depression we can never go back to 90s as a watermark

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by timberline742

It isn't. It's a pretty darn good entry level salary. Actually, most mid career people I know would be happy with that in this region. This board is just ludicrously affluent. I bet most people here would be aghast at the concept of having roommates beyond late 20s.

This.

This board thinks this is good for Boston and Boston renters are bitter while not taking note of the fact that 70% of Boston rent.

Also, there is muuuch muuch more urgency amongst the middle and working class to get out of your parents' house. Most posters here talk as though the general population can wait to be able to afford housing. People have situations they need to get out of and parents that need them to support themselves because the parents themselves are struggling.

Most people on this board were only of moderate means for a short period of their lives in their 20s in the 70s/80s/90s/00s and were never in DIRE situations. Their sense of what it means to be low income and or what is feasible in today's economy is very dated and speaks to the need for more economic diversity on this board.

The fact that the only "normal" jobs yall can come up with on here is Cop/Teacher/Firefighter is hilarious and frightening at the same time...many on this baord have very little idea how bad "normal" jobs actually are. And how little the average MA family makes.

[Vanderbiltgrad]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

This.

This board thinks this is good for Boston and Boston renters are bitter while not taking note of the fact that 70% of Boston rent.

Also, there is muuuch muuch more urgency amongst the middle and working class to get out of your parents' house. Most posters here talk as though the general population can wait to be able to afford housing. People have situations they need to get out of and parents that need them to support themselves because the parents themselves are struggling.

Most people on this board were only of moderate means for a short period of their lives in their 20s in the 70s/80s/90s/00s and were never in DIRE situations. Their sense of what it means to be low income and or what is feasible in today's economy is very dated and speaks to the need for more economic diversity on this board.

The fact that the only "normal" jobs yall can come up with on here is Cop/Teacher/Firefighter is hilarious and frightening at the same time...many on this baord have very little idea how bad "normal" jobs actually are. And how little the average MA family makes.

How much do you have to make a year not to be in poverty in Boston metro? I heard in San Francisco it is 117k.

[btownboss4]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

This.

This board thinks this is good for Boston and Boston renters are bitter while not taking note of the fact that 70% of Boston rent.

Also, there is muuuch muuch more urgency amongst the middle and working class to get out of your parents' house. Most posters here talk as though the general population can wait to be able to afford housing. People have situations they need to get out of and parents that need them to support themselves because the parents themselves are struggling.

Most people on this board were only of moderate means for a short period of their lives in their 20s in the 70s/80s/90s/00s and were never in DIRE situations. Their sense of what it means to be low income and or what is feasible in today's economy is very dated and speaks to the need for more economic diversity on this board.

The fact that the only "normal" jobs yall can come up with on here is Cop/Teacher/Firefighter is hilarious and frightening at the same time...many on this baord have very little idea how bad "normal" jobs actually are. And how little the average MA family makes.

Teachers are pretty much the median. In Boston they get 60ish a year which is roughly the median income in Massachusetts.

[redplum33]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

This board thinks this is good for Boston and Boston renters are bitter while not taking note of the fact that 70% of Boston rent.

That was the opinion of one person, not the board in general. And I would be very surprised if that one person falls into the "ludicrously affluent" category. I suspect he's a Boston area homeowner of average means and is planning to sell in the near future. Probably bought a long time ago or inherited, and is waiting for the windfall.

There's certainly some affluent people on this board but I think many just talk a big game.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by btownboss4

Teachers are pretty much the median. In Boston they get 60ish a year which is roughly the median income in Massachusetts.

Median in Massachusetts vs median in Boston. Hmm...

Teachers get paid quite well. Much better than most average folks. Especially when you factor in public pensions down the road.

[btownboss4]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

Median in Massachusetts vs median in Boston. Hmm...

Teachers get paid quite well. Much better than most average folks. Especially when you factor in public pensions down the road.

Teachers get paid less than say a plumber or electrician and private school teachers tend to get paid even less than public school ones. So unless you think that a plumber is a rich person job, being a teacher is pretty average.

Teachers get paid damn close to the median income.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by btownboss4

Teachers get paid less than say a plumber or electrician and private school teachers tend to get paid even less than public school ones. So unless you think that a plumber is a rich person job, being a teacher is pretty average.

Teachers get paid damn close to the median income.

I know some public school teachers around my age. They all make more than me. They all do quite well. Why do we always go to the oh hey plumbers make this much so see you're wrong! There are very few plumbers. Yes, plumbers get paid well too. Your point?

Teachers get paid well. Why is their a victim complex surrounding school teachers?

According to the Census, the median household income in Boston is $58k. Median per capita income is is $37k. So you really think public school teachers make 40k? https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fa...etts/PST045217

How about the state level? Household median: $70k. Per capita median: $38k. https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fa...e/ma/PST045217

http://bmrb.org/wp-content/uploads/2...R16-6link1.pdf

^ The lowest salary I see here is considerably higher than the per capita medians for both city of Boston and the state of Massachusetts. Many teachers by themselves make the median household income.

It's fine to make money. Let's just be honest and accurate.

[btownboss4]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

I know some public school teachers around my age. They all make more than me. They all do quite well. Why do we always go to the oh hey plumbers make this much so see you're wrong! There are very few plumbers. Yes, plumbers get paid well too. Your point?

Teachers get paid well. Why is their a victim complex surrounding school teachers?

It's not a victim complex it's just crazy to not call it a normal job because it's a normal job with a normal wage. Almost exactly the median.