The Midwest is the best if... (Los Angeles, Bakersfield: unemployment, schools, square footage)

[StreetLegal]

Originally Posted by WizardOfRadical

The midwest is garbage. It is cheap for a reason. No one important wants to live there.

You need to put the bong down for a minute and get out of Santa Cruz for a bit. Plenty of nice places in the Midwest. Madison, Chicago, Minneapolis to name a few. And I say that as some who grew up in So. Calif. and still lives in So.Calif. and thinks the OP is full of it.

[radiolibre99]

How come these threads keep popping up?

The only reason why it mildly sucks living in SoCal is that the wages have not kept up pace with rents and housing costs. In certain fields yes, you do make more than in Texas for example but factor in the COL and you have a better comparable standard of living in the heartland states.

I differentiate between standard of living and quality of life. And it all depends on what you want. The heartland states offer you a better standard, more quantity for your buck. CA is all quality and we pay for it up the nose.

But what I don't get is, have some of y'all never left CA? Most of the country is developed and is a developing. Places like Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, Austin, Charlotte, Denver, Nashville are booming and have reached a stage of development that's comparable (but not there) to the coastal cities that give A types the ego the size of Mammoth. It's not 1990 anymore. These places have moved into the 21st century. They also boast scenic landscapes. Arkansas is gorgeous, you guys are bonkers if you think otherwise (the cities suck). Ever gone skiing in Sante Fe?

I went to South Carolina and was struck by their nice beaches. California is the best the country has to offer in my opinion but I'm not delusional anymore thinking CA is all this country has to offer.

[jm1982]

I agree that a lot of cities have developed over the years. Many people don't travel much at all...or do much research at all.

There are some pretty cheap airfares out there now ..most likely because oil keeps going down and down .

I'm seeing flights from LA to Denver as low as $77 roundtrip..on spirit which I heard sucks ..but still.
Also I saw some really cheap ones to many other cities too.

You can actually get a flight to some of these cities now for less than the cost of a dinner for two people at a moderate priced restaurant in L.A

I know Denver is quite expensive right now at least in terms of buying...I haven't looked too much at rents but those probably aren't that cheap either.

But I to agree that a lot of cities have 'upped their game' so to speak and have developed with more restaurants, amenities, things to do than in the past.

It sounds like you are pretty well traveled. I have been to some of these places, but would like to go to more of them for sure. I have heard good things about all the places you have mentioned.

I feel similar to you , California has a lot to offer , but there are also places that are worthwhile to at least visit and maybe even live in that have something to offer as well.

Because California is such a big state and there is so much to do , this is why some people might not even explore other states. There is the mentality that , "Why should I bother leaving CA if I don't have to ...I can find it all here"

[znlwovuhrjw]

Originally Posted by jm1982

I agree that a lot of cities have developed over the years. Many people don't travel much at all...or do much research at all.

There are some pretty cheap airfares out there now ..most likely because oil keeps going down and down .

I'm seeing flights from LA to Denver as low as $77 roundtrip..on spirit which I heard sucks ..but still.
Also I saw some really cheap ones to many other cities too.

You can actually get a flight to some of these cities now for less than the cost of a dinner for two people at a moderate priced restaurant in L.A

I know Denver is quite expensive right now at least in terms of buying...I haven't looked too much at rents but those probably aren't that cheap either.

But I to agree that a lot of cities have 'upped their game' so to speak and have developed with more restaurants, amenities, things to do than in the past.

It sounds like you are pretty well traveled. I have been to some of these places, but would like to go to more of them for sure. I have heard good things about all the places you have mentioned.

I feel similar to you , California has a lot to offer , but there are also places that are worthwhile to at least visit and maybe even live in that have something to offer as well.

Because California is such a big state and there is so much to do , this is why some people might not even explore other states. There is the mentality that , "Why should I bother leaving CA if I don't have to ...I can find it all here"

That's exactly what bothers me about 99% of the Californians I meet in general.

[botticelli]

Originally Posted by theraven24

I don't quite understand the point of this thread.

I do.

It is about people whining everyday about how expensive California is and don't move. CA is expensive because it has all the nice things (weather, nature, jobs, wage, entertainment etc.), and if you don't necessarily need all these and high price has become such a pain, then stop complaining and start packing. There are a lot of places with better value out there.

Of course there are practical reasons which make it hard for some people to move, but people move all the time. And if someone hasn't moved away, well he just likes what CA offers too much. You can't get what you want and not pay for that.

[botticelli]

Originally Posted by radiolibre99

How come these threads keep popping up?

The only reason why it mildly sucks living in SoCal is that the wages have not kept up pace with rents and housing costs. In certain fields yes, you do make more than in Texas for example but factor in the COL and you have a better comparable standard of living in the heartland states.

I differentiate between standard of living and quality of life. And it all depends on what you want. The heartland states offer you a better standard, more quantity for your buck. CA is all quality and we pay for it up the nose.

But what I don't get is, have some of y'all never left CA? Most of the country is developed and is a developing. Places like Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, Austin, Charlotte, Denver, Nashville are booming and have reached a stage of development that's comparable (but not there) to the coastal cities that give A types the ego the size of Mammoth. It's not 1990 anymore. These places have moved into the 21st century. They also boast scenic landscapes. Arkansas is gorgeous, you guys are bonkers if you think otherwise (the cities suck). Ever gone skiing in Sante Fe?

I went to South Carolina and was struck by their nice beaches. California is the best the country has to offer in my opinion but I'm not delusional anymore thinking CA is all this country has to offer.

well said.
There are so many other more affordable cities out there those people simply refuse to consider, yet day after day whine about how expensive life is.

To be honest, American cities are incredible cheap to live in, compared with say Canada, Australia or most European countries. Even cities like Los Angeles are not outrageously expensive. Have you heard about home prices in Vancouver and Toronto? They are not cheaper by any means. As of today, gas price in Toronto is US$3.5/gallon and medium home price is $US 900,000, and we have TERRIBLE WEATHER plus lower wage.

So what exactly to complain about? If you think LA is too expensive, then move to Houston, Atlanta, Minneapolis, plenty of choices out there. Why does one think only CA is livable?

[Phil P]

You pay for your California beach and weather by not having as nice of house, as much disposable income, or as much for savings/retirement as you could have in the Midwest. I kinda think all of Cali is overrated and a lot of Californians don't really understand how much there is to do in the rest of the country or how many things in your life would be the same, yet cheaper in the Midwest.

And airlines tickets are cheap. So it's not like you kiss Cali goodbye forever if you leave.

[WizardOfRadical]

Originally Posted by StreetLegal

You need to put the bong down for a minute and get out of Santa Cruz for a bit. Plenty of nice places in the Midwest. Madison, Chicago, Minneapolis to name a few. And I say that as some who grew up in So. Calif. and still lives in So.Calif. and thinks the OP is full of it.

Madison is lame. People hype it up way too much. There's a hill, 2 lakes, a college, and the state capitol.. and people act like it is Big Sur. LoL get real. Minneapolis? You gotta be kidding. Might as well live in Toronto at that point.

[HyperionGap]

Originally Posted by WizardOfRadical

Madison is lame. People hype it up way too much. There's a hill, 2 lakes, a college, and the state capitol.. and people act like it is Big Sur. LoL get real. Minneapolis? You gotta be kidding. Might as well live in Toronto at that point.

Madison is a great mid sized city. The only thing that sucks about it is that 6 months out of the year it is ridiculously cold.

Anybody that told you it's like Big Sur is a moron. How is a city of 200,000 people like a random region in coastal CA? Makes no sense at all.

The best thing about Madison is the food. I noticed that you didn't have Mickey's Dairy Bar, The Old Fashioned, Greenbush bakery, or the Jalapeno Cheesebread from the farmer's market on your list. Perhaps you should spend some more time there.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by HyperionGap

This is the real reason you don't like Socal. You and your family failed to make it here so you left. Now you use any reason you can to rationalize why the area sucks.

Well, then it would be kind of normal not to like a place if they couldn't afford to live there. And this is a very common scenario about California, in general. Median California income, even though it's higher than other areas, just doesn't go as far in terms of lifestyle as that lower median income in most other places.

I also admit it gets my ire up when I read "let 'em eat cake posts" like yours. California likes to pretend it cares about the poor and the middle class, but it's mostly lip service. Even some liberals are admitting as much:

Fixing California: The Green Gentry