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What's really crazy is that Mexico has a long history of being a haven for runaway slaves during slavery in America. The Alamo in San Antonio, Texas was attacked and sacked by the Mexican military specifically because Southerners were moving into Texas with the intention of taking it away from Mexico in order to make it a new slave territory. The Mexican military went so far as to slaughter 200 US citizens at the Alamo in order to PREVENT the spread of slavery into Texas. The Mexican military's defeat of the French Army at Puebla in 1863 which occurred during and should be considered a major battle of America's Civil War (which we celebrate on Cinco de Mayo each year) prevented the French Army from moving into the Southern United States in order to militarily aid the Confederacy at a time when the Civil War could have easily gone the South's way. Both Britain and France desperately wanted the South to prevail in our Civil War as cheap cotton from the South was the key to both their expanding industrial economies. The spread of slavery into what would be have been formerly free states had the South prevailed would have dropped the price of cotton dramatically. Had the French defeated the Mexican Army, brother you'd best believe they were going to head straight for New Orleans and from there fight tooth and nail for control of the Mississippi. Had the South won the Civil War with the help of the French, the ENTIRE NATION, from Maine to California, would have been turned into one giant slave empire. So, in a not-too-indirect way, the Mexicans saved not only the Union, but prevented the entire nation from becoming a slave empire. It should absolutely go without saying this has a special significance for the African-American people. Somehow, some way, you'd think this might have trickled down the to the streets, at least here and there...but that's not necessarily the way things have played out. Why this is is anyone's guess. I'd love to hear people's thoughts. The distance between black and brown in Los Angeles is very real - and as many have pointed out this distance simply DOES NOT EXIST in places like NYC. There must be a reason for it.
What's really crazy is that Mexico has a long history of being a haven for runaway slaves during slavery in America. The Alamo in San Antonio, Texas was attacked and sacked by the Mexican military specifically because Southerners were moving into Texas with the intention of taking it away from Mexico in order to make it a new slave territory. The Mexican military went so far as to slaughter 200 US citizens at the Alamo in order to PREVENT the spread of slavery into Texas. The Mexican military's defeat of the French Army at Puebla in 1863 which occurred during and should be considered a major battle of America's Civil War (which we celebrate on Cinco de Mayo each year) prevented the French Army from moving into the Southern United States in order to militarily aid the Confederacy at a time when the Civil War could have easily gone the South's way. Both Britain and France desperately wanted the South to prevail in our Civil War as cheap cotton from the South was the key to both their expanding industrial economies. The spread of slavery into what would be have been formerly free states had the South prevailed would have dropped the price of cotton dramatically. Had the French defeated the Mexican Army, brother you'd best believe they were going to head straight for New Orleans and from there fight tooth and nail for control of the Mississippi. Had the South won the Civil War with the help of the French, the ENTIRE NATION, from Maine to California, would have been turned into one giant slave empire. So, in a not-too-indirect way, the Mexicans saved not only the Union, but prevented the entire nation from becoming a slave empire. It should absolutely go without saying this has a special significance for the African-American people. Somehow, some way, you'd think this might have trickled down the to the streets, at least here and there...but that's not necessarily the way things have played out. Why this is is anyone's guess. I'd love to hear people's thoughts. The distance between black and brown in Los Angeles is very real - and as many have pointed out this distance simply DOES NOT EXIST in places like NYC. There must be a reason for it.
The "brown" people you are talking about in New York who hang with African-Americans are the Puerto Ricans and Dominicans not Mexicans. You really won't find too many Mexicans in New York and if so they are more likely to be new working class immigrants. They fear blacks, for either real or perceived reasons, not befriend them or romance them. I can't explain the reason for this unity. Maybe its the underclass, get "whitey" together frame of mind marketed by people like Al Sharpton who happens to have his national HQ in New York.
Being something of a statistics nerd, I was combing over the recent 2010 census and what is striking is since 1980 LA's Black population as been plummeting. True, AA's have been moving back south is large numbers from all areas of the country like CHI, DET and NY, but LA's loss of Black population by proportion has been pretty steep.
Now, granted, I'm sure there's many complex reasons for it and Southern California's history of race relations has been...well...spotty...but as someone curious about history and demographics, could someone explain the reasons for the exodus and weither or not it may ever turn around?
Took courses toward a GIS (Geographic Information Systems) certificate and did my final project on this very subject (called it Black Flight--used maps to demonstrate the reduction in black population from 1980 - 2010). Very striking.
Location: SF Bay Area, aka, Liberal Mecca/wherever DoD sends me to
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatAngMoh
The "brown" people you are talking about in New York who hang with African-Americans are the Puerto Ricans and Dominicans not Mexicans. You really won't find too many Mexicans in New York and if so they are more likely to be new working class immigrants. They fear blacks, for either real or perceived reasons, not befriend them or romance them. I can't explain the reason for this unity. Maybe its the underclass, get "whitey" together frame of mind marketed by people like Al Sharpton who happens to have his national HQ in New York.
most of the mexicans up in the NE tend to be amerinds from Southern Mexico and they tend to be people who are reserved and keep to themselves. they are different to the mestizos/white mexicans who live here in California
Location: SF Bay Area, aka, Liberal Mecca/wherever DoD sends me to
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reasons for decline of black population in LA;
-manufacturing jobs (blacks have heavily depended on manufacturing jobs) have left CA in general and off to the South and East Asia
-cheaper housing in other parts of the LA metro area or other parts of the country
-desire to be in safer areas (I know blacks here in Nor-Cal who are from LA who have moved here because it's safer out here)
-Latin Americans have taken over their communities and thus, feel out of place.
The same can be said here in Northern California. Black population in general has declined here heavily for the reasons that I have stated. Oakland has also seen its black population decline as well.
It is funny that we think of L.A as this melting pot, but it is really a myth. The city is very segregated.
Segregation is not where people voluntarily choose to live. Segregation was the institutionalized policies that dictated which race could live where, which school they could and could not go to, which jobs they could have, where they could and could not sit in movie theaters, where they could and could not eat, etc.
Regardless of where people live, we mix with each other easily at work, sporting events, movies, restaurants, etc.
It was not always so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHICAGOLAND92
Interesting! Thanks for the reply. Sorry for the misguided post. I was going by the link I posted from the U.S. census. I thought something was wrong with that picture.
Also intriguing about the Latinos being considered white. I wonder why Hispanics are classified separately now (well, "technically" counted separately).
Latino, Hispanic, which ever term you use is relatively new and neither is a race, they are cultures. As you can see in the LAUSD demographics there are a half dozen crazy designations like "Hispanic of any race" because a Hispanic can be white, black or Asian. Those white devils from Spain & Portugal were very efficient at spreading their seeds all around the globe starting in the 1500's. They even managed to sneak onshore in Ireland, hence the "black Irish."
When my father was in high school in LA in the 1940's if you'd told one of his Mexican friends he wasn't white, he would have slugged you.
I have not idea why we even bother with such classifications these days. I think it is counter productive and divisive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ff52172
What's really crazy is that Mexico ....... Had the French defeated the Mexican Army, brother you'd best believe they were going to head straight for New Orleans and from there fight tooth and nail for control of the Mississippi. Had the South won the Civil War with the help of the French, the ENTIRE NATION, from Maine to California, would have been turned into one giant slave empire. So, in a not-too-indirect way, the Mexicans saved not only the Union, but prevented the entire nation from becoming a slave empire. It should absolutely go without saying this has a special significance for the African-American people. Somehow, some way, you'd think this might have trickled down the to the streets, at least here and there...but that's not necessarily the way things have played out. Why this is is anyone's guess. I'd love to hear people's thoughts. The distance between black and brown in Los Angeles is very real - and as many have pointed out this distance simply DOES NOT EXIST in places like NYC. There must be a reason for it.
What is crazy is pretty much that whole post. If the South had won the war, that would not have turned the north into slave territory. What the South was fighting for was (ironically) self determination. They didn't want to turn the North into slave territory, they wanted the right to determine on their own, their policies in each state.
Even if the South had succeed in seceding slavery was bound to collapse on its own anyway. It was not a sustainable economic system.
The reason that blacks and Hispanic dynamics are so different in NYC is that NYC is 25% black and 27% Hispanic, in LA it is 10% black and 49% Hispanic and the Hispanics, 80% Mexican, have been displacing the blacks in jobs, in living areas and in influence in local politics and that creates tension.
When I was a younger almost all the janitors in office building were black, now they are 100% Hispanic, ditto for domestic help, cooks and maids were black, now they are all Hispanic. Black unemployment is 13% in LA, nearly double the overall rate and black youth unemployment is at 29%. A lot of the jobs they might have gotten once are now filled by Hispanics.
Those lower level jobs, which were once the only ones blacks could get, are closed off to them so they miss the experience that comes from a job and the benefits a jobholder has to pass on the work ethic to their children for them to have a better life. The best example is the son of my grandmother's cook/housekeeper. His mom worked for my grandmother for thirty years or so and she was able to provide for her son (along with help from her husband, another key) and they put Walter through college and medical school and today he is my internist. That happened because both his parents had solid, blue collar jobs. Those jobs are gone and it is only partly the fault of being displaced by Hispanics. Culprit #2 is that clean air that drove the auto manufacturers, the airplane and defense manufacturers, the tire plants, the oil related jobs and the rest of the manufacturing base out of the area.
Segregation is not where people voluntarily choose to live. Segregation was the institutionalized policies that dictated which race could live where, which school they could and could not go to, which jobs they could have, where they could and could not sit in movie theaters, where they could and could not eat, etc.
Regardless of where people live, we mix with each other easily at work, sporting events, movies, restaurants, etc.
It was not always so.
Residential segregation can be involuntary and voluntary.
That being said, although great diversity exists in the workplace, schools and other public venues, the truth of the matter is that many communites in the L.A. region are residentially segregated. Look at the demographics for a specific community or neighborhood and the numbers are telling.
"great diversity exists in the workplace, schools and other public venues"
*Surely, you are not talking about the C-Suite.
*The fraternity and sorority systems in general don't recognize your comment.
*I'm unaware of any public venues that are fully integrated. The lone exception would probably be a sports stadium but whose sitting in the bleachers, whose sitting courtside, etc.
*Fox Hills Mall is very different from the Grove as far as color of the people in the mall.
"great diversity exists in the workplace, schools and other public venues"
*Surely, you are not talking about the C-Suite.
*The fraternity and sorority systems in general don't recognize your comment.
*I'm unaware of any public venues that are fully integrated. The lone exception would probably be a sports stadium but whose sitting in the bleachers, whose sitting courtside, etc.
*Fox Hills Mall is very different from the Grove as far as color of the people in the mall.
You still miss the point of people congregating where they feel comfortable.
Comparing the Westfield Culver City (there is no Fox Hills Mall) to The Grove is beyond silly. The Grove was built as much as a tourist attraction as it was a mall. A comparison to the Westside Pavilion might have been a truer comparison, but even then it misses the point that no one is barred or discouraged from shopping in any of the malls in So Cal.
What public venues are there that are not integrated, where persons of color are banned from?
Last time I sat court side at a Clippers game I was next to four African Americans on one side and a Jewish couple on the other.
There are currently about 800 African Americans executives at the C level in the Fortune 500. Will they get to the top job? Probably not based on the odds of any one individual getting to the top job, but the notion of an African American leading a company like Xerox was unthinkable some years ago. Those with the drive and talent can and do make it and they are not held back by the same reasons they were 30 years ago.
Not sure where you went to school, but my fraternity had black and Asian members. Any one who came by during rush was evaluated as an individual, not based on their race or religion.
Being something of a statistics nerd, I was combing over the recent 2010 census and what is striking is since 1980 LA's Black population as been plummeting. True, AA's have been moving back south is large numbers from all areas of the country like CHI, DET and NY, but LA's loss of Black population by proportion has been pretty steep.
Now, granted, I'm sure there's many complex reasons for it and Southern California's history of race relations has been...well...spotty...but as someone curious about history and demographics, could someone explain the reasons for the exodus and weither or not it may ever turn around?
If race relations here are spotty then going down south doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but I digress.
I think the last 20 plus yrs the Latino community has sort of displaced a lot of black folks. I don't have stats to back this up, just sort of anecdotally speaking.
Not to butter up black folks, but I'm really impressed with black people, they seem like they really pulled themselves up that last 30 yrs and are doing a lot better... not all problems have gone away, but you can't say that for any race... but rock on....
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