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1. Where exactly does Eastern LI start.
2. Suffolk has only slightly higher population. Maybe less than 70,00 but spread out in a county about three times the size of Nassau. Nassau is much more dense, therefore its more capatable for Public Transportation.
3. Despite its greater population. Suffolk has a lower commuter population. Look at basic demographics. Census.gov provides information about commuter habits. As well, the LIRR could also be a source for this type of information.
4. We have equal population. But stations West of Huntingon/Babylon contribute more money. These stations deserve better service because of their use.
5. Ronkoma might be a crowded train station. But so is just about every other train station in Nassau. Minus the Oyster Bay and West Hempstead.
6. As for a light rail in Central Nassau. This is an absolute neccesity. Central Nassau has the density to support a system. The West Hempstead and Hempstead Line. Should be converted over to light rail. They should be extended through the collesium, mall, hofstra, NCC, and then branch off following the meadow brook or wantagh pkwy to Freeport/Baldwin Hicksville/Westbury.
7. For the guy that cherishes the Montauk area. Why ruin it with direct train service. If you could get from Montauk to NY in an hour. Every developer in the world would be their too cutting up lands, putting up nice cookie cutter homes, ruining your cherished Montauk.
8. If you want to start a revolution start a smart growth revoltion for the desner parts of LI. not a put a train in Medford revolution.
9. Generally, Public Transporation includes more than commuter train service.
10. I think Express Bus service would be better in Parts of Suffolk with low density and bad train service. Even Nassau can beenifit from Alternatives to the LIRRS commuter monoply. Like they do in NJ. Give them their own lane and let them go. If you have free time look into the bus service in Curitiba, Brazil. This is proven solution to some of your concerns.
11. I just found some stats. About total ridership. Ronk has the most daily commuters. Slightly more than Hicksville. I stand by my other statements by in large that Nassau and Staions West of Huntingon/Babylon contribute more daily commuters. I think this is due to the fact that their are less trains station east of the Ronk. I stand by point 10 as the best option for Points East. http://www.geocities.com/metabolicis...ngerCounts.pdf this are the stats on daily ridership.
Last edited by Buscape; 09-01-2009 at 05:33 PM..
Reason: Found the stats
1. Where exactly does Eastern LI start.
2. Suffolk has only slightly higher population. Maybe less than 70,00 but spread out in a county about three times the size of Nassau. Nassau is much more dense, therefore its more capatable for Public Transportation.
3. Despite its greater population. Suffolk has a lower commuter population. Look at basic demographics. Census.gov provides information about commuter habits. As well, the LIRR could also be a source for this type of information.
4. We have equal population. But stations West of Huntingon/Babylon contribute more money. These stations deserve better service because of their use.
5. Ronkoma might be a crowded train station. But so is just about every other train station in Nassau. Minus the Oyster Bay and West Hempstead.
6. As for a light rail in Central Nassau. This is an absolute neccesity. Central Nassau has the density to support a system. The West Hempstead and Hempstead Line. Should be converted over to light rail. They should be extended through the collesium, mall, hofstra, NCC, and then branch off following the meadow brook or wantagh pkwy to Freeport/Baldwin Hicksville/Westbury.
7. For the guy that cherishes the Montauk area. Why ruin it with direct train service. If you could get from Montauk to NY in an hour. Every developer in the world would be their too cutting up lands, putting up nice cookie cutter homes, ruining your cherished Montauk.
8. If you want to start a revolution start a smart growth revoltion for the desner parts of LI. not a put a train in Medford revolution.
9. Generally, Public Transporation includes more than commuter train service.
10. I think Express Bus service would be better in Parts of Suffolk with low density and bad train service. Even Nassau can beenifit from Alternatives to the LIRRS commuter monoply. Like they do in NJ. Give them their own lane and let them go. If you have free time look into the bus service in Curitiba, Brazil. This is proven solution to some of your concerns.
11. I just found some stats. About total ridership. Ronk has the most daily commuters. Slightly more than Hicksville. I stand by my other statements by in large that Nassau and Staions West of Huntingon/Babylon contribute more daily commuters. I think this is due to the fact that their are less trains station east of the Ronk. I stand by point 10 as the best option for Points East. http://www.geocities.com/metabolicis...ngerCounts.pdf this are the stats on daily ridership.
If Ronko has more riders than Hicksville (and 80% are coming from points east) than you just supported my argument for improved express service to RT112.
FWIW the Intermodal is half Bus/Rail
Crooks
PS
Most would agree these days that E Suffolks starts at the Wm Floyd and ELI @ RT 112.
I dont think that supports your point. If Ronk has 18,000 commuters, it basically gets cancelled out by 17,500 commuters in Hicksville. The rest of the list is dominated by points west of Babylon/Huntington. Which would mean points west should get more service because they contribute more. Ronk act as more of an outlier in this scenario. Based on the fact that service East is spotty. If Syosset, Westbury, Bethpage stations closed the number of commuters to Hicksville would increase due to no alternative. Im not opposed to Giving support to Ronk. But I do not think they deserve the majority of LIRR support. Especially, if it means comprimising service to Points West. I think their are better alternatives to expensive rail service.
I dont think that supports your point. If Ronk has 18,000 commuters, it basically gets cancelled out by 17,500 commuters in Hicksville. The rest of the list is dominated by points west of Babylon/Huntington. Which would mean points west should get more service because they contribute more. Ronk act as more of an outlier in this scenario. Based on the fact that service East is spotty. If Syosset, Westbury, Bethpage stations closed the number of commuters to Hicksville would increase due to no alternative. Im not opposed to Giving support to Ronk. But I do not think they deserve the majority of LIRR support. Especially, if it means comprimising service to Points West. I think their are better alternatives to expensive rail service.
Chicken/Egg?
Dominated by points west because there are more stops to accomodate them.
Suffolk county residents are forced to drive just to get to mediocre service.
Ronko isnt the answer...its the problem.
18000 commuters clearly points to appetite.
Add in the poor bastards who ride Port Jeff-Smithtown and Islip- Patchogue and theres a poopload of underserved and angry LIRR commuters.
Whats really needed is ample 75 min Express service to 112/Medford Intermodal then tie into robust surface to points north,south and east.
Dominated by points west because there are more stops to accomodate them.
Suffolk county residents are forced to drive just to get to mediocre service.
Ronko isnt the answer...its the problem. 18000 commuters clearly points to appetite.
Add in the poor bastards who ride Port Jeff-Smithtown and Islip- Patchogue and theres a poopload of underserved and angry LIRR commuters.
Whats really needed is ample 75 min Express service to 112/Medford Intermodal then tie into robust surface to points north,south and east.
Crooks
Add 75 min express service from 112/Medford and you fix Ronk but in 10 years there will be 18000 angry commuters from Medford/112 as commuters flood the area and points east.
As I posted earlier, where do you draw the line in the sand and stop subsidizing urban sprawl? Your argument would hold water if the population was rapidly growing and there was a need to build and develop further east. It's not, people around the country bought into the idea of living in the exurbs for a lower cost of living and a different lifestyle. For those who made that choice to turn around and demand that the ammenities of urban living, such as express commuter rail service, be brought to them is a bit much.
Sorry, little sympathy here. Do you really want your beloved Rocky Point to to be like central Nassau in 10 years?
Add 75 min express service from 112/Medford and you fix Ronk but in 10 years there will be 18000 angry commuters from Medford/112 as commuters flood the area and points east.
As I posted earlier, where do you draw the line in the sand and stop subsidizing urban sprawl? Your argument would hold water if the population was rapidly growing and there was a need to build and develop further east. It's not, people around the country bought into the idea of living in the exurbs for a lower cost of living and a different lifestyle. For those who made that choice to turn around and demand that the ammenities of urban living, such as express commuter rail service, be brought to them is a bit much.
Sorry, little sympathy here. Do you really want your beloved Rocky Point to to be like central Nassau in 10 years?
Good point..but the population is clearly shifting eastward.
The population might be shifting eastward. But it will level out. Areas East of 112 will never reach the density level of Central Nassau. You need certain density to support Public Transportation(like buses) The center was built in Mineola because of the density. Hopefully, the build another in Hicksville, and maybe Babylon, Huntington as well.
How many of those 18,000 commuters would be interested in taking a bus somewhere. The center in Mineola isnt built solely for commuters. It operates on the Weekends and at nights.
You have to think smaller before you build these massive projects. Maybe start neighborhood circulator buses. Get people used to the idea of taking the bus. Then start weekend services on main arterial. Than develop something like Mineola.
Crooks - you have to have the lowest post to rep ratio I've ever seen. It should give you a bit of insight into your ideas... or maybe your approach. =P
I'd vote a big "no" for many reasons... First off that the LIRR couldn't run a toy train set. They're an absolute disgrace... Secondly, express service is targeted towards the workforce. One could argue that leisure ridership would want it - but if I'm traveling in to see the tree at Christmas or going in to see a play, 20 or so min extra isn't a deal breaker.
Technology advancements continue to disperse the workforce... telecommuting, telepresence - whatever you want to call it. People are less and less required to have a physical presence in "the office" these days. This trend is only going to grow more in the future and I'd rather see the LIRR take whatever funds you'd ear mark for this and clean-up the existing service offerings. Stretching them thinner would just be more fail.
I'd talk about the existing situation and potential feeding of more sprawl, but others covered it pretty well. People who are buying in Brookhaven know what they're getting into... The fact that there isn't express service into Penn is not something that surprises them. If commute is an issue, there is plenty of home inventory within very close proximity to express service.
P.S. "LIRR express" is an oxymoron.
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