[Danknee]

Originally Posted by samsite

The U.S. policy makers needs to raise the standards of elementary and high school education.

While decreasing the national debt and drastically cutting spending in all areas. This is where the hard part starts.

[Atlas1337]

Originally Posted by samsite

It's a tough issue because good education costs money. And without money going into education, you're not going get quality education. I went to a private Catholic school and 99.9% of the students go on to graduate from 4 years universities. It costs money to hire motivated teachers and have good facilities. Unfortunately, not everybody can have this experience. I don't know if you can blame it on the teachers or the parents. Teacher would be much more motivated if they had higher pay, motivated students, and better facilities. Students would learn more if the school had outstanding teachers like the ones at my school. Our school also kicked students out for getting poor grades and having disrupting behavior. I don't think the public schools can flunk kids anymore. Children in the U.S. need to work very very hard to get kicked out of a public school.

The U.S. policy makers needs to raise the standards of elementary and high school education. They always talk about it, but nothing every gets accomplished. We have good standards for Colleges and Universities, but I don't know why we can't have it for elementary and highschool. We keep making excuses like ADD, self-esteem issues, cultural issues, religion, sexual orientation, and etc... At the end of the year, if your students can't pass a test that guages adequate reading, writing, and arithmetic, then your students will need to repeat the classes until they turn 18 and join the work force.

Washington DC public schools spend ~$24,000 per pupil per year. The urban schools in NJ (like Newark) spend over $20,000 per pupil. The national average is ~$10,000. Parts of the world with better public education than the US spend far less than our national average.

YouTube - The True Cost of Public Education

[Lazydriver]

Originally Posted by Atlas1337

Sorry, but kids in Shanghai & Singapore aren't playing tug-of-war to learn algebra.

I'm almost certain my father got a better grade-school education in a poor Turkish village in the 1950s than I did in suburban NJ which cost tax payers $10,000/year.

No one in America is poor. There hasn't been a poor American since the WW2 era. Sorry, but its the truth. When I say 'private' I mean privately run. As in, privately managed. The State can still subsidize it. I mentioned vouchers in my first post on this thread.

Young people in the USA lack discipline. Discipline is more important than self esteem, 'electives', clubs, or other nonsense that schools peddle these days.

You're right that people in the USA lack discipline, but that takes passion to develop. I guarantee that people will not have an interest in developing that discipline unless they enjoy it or see it as a way to better their lives, and not something that gets in their way. (Something your father might've realized because he might've not had that much to eat, I'm assuming.)

People automatically fear Math for various reasons, mostly involving the stress and seemingly uselessness. Therefore: if they have good memories associated with Math and MORE IMPORTANTLY using it, they'll apply themselves and find creative ways to make higher Math fun and not fearful. As someone said earlier in this thread, programming might help a little bit with that too (perhaps programming an electric catapult would help people understand Mathematics better - that would be a fun project).

The trick is to keep students inspired, and not slumping in their chairs, quickly memorizing something to pass a test, and then forgetting it and hating it. Oh, and to get the students to enjoy using it in their daily life so they can get better at it. It's a language.

Also, there's another problem with the lack of respect that students have for teachers. But I've seen teachers handle it by making their students respect them, so, it's really up to the individual teacher. And there's also a taboo about being a dork/nerd because they're good with Math with some people. That's obviously a cultural issue.

As for being poor, compared to a Zimbabwean kid, yeah, I'm rich, but that sure as hell doesn't mean I have the money (or my family) to pay for a private/charter school (that may or may not have worse education than what I received). Even if vouchers paid 75% of the tuition and fees, the 25% might've been too much for my parents.

And what about those broken families where they don't give a damn about their kids and wouldn't pay a dime if they could avoid it? Why should they suffer? (By the way, that public education is probably the only thing that makes me different from a Zimbabwean kid who would GLADLY have it - something a lot of students forget.)

To the last poster: we were #45 in 2006. This was before the budget crisis. It's likely we'll be #50 the next time they check:
Nevada still near bottom in per pupil spending - News - ReviewJournal.com

[Danknee]

Originally Posted by Lazydriver

People automatically fear Math for various reasons, mostly involving the stress and seemingly uselessness. Therefore: if they have good memories associated with Math and MORE IMPORTANTLY using it, they'll apply themselves and find creative ways to make higher Math fun and not fearful.

Let's bring this 12 year old kid (click) into the state and have him teach math to his peers, and their parents.

[Lazydriver]

Originally Posted by Danknee

Let's bring this 12 year old kid (click) into the state and have him teach math to his peers, and their parents.

While amazing, he's a savant and he's also explaining Calculus at a much quicker rate than most people can understand. In this video, he also doesn't really explain much /behind/ the mathematics he is using, but then again, he's not really teaching, but showing his abilities. He doesn't delve into what a derivative or an integral is and how to solve for one, much less the other stuff.

But if you can think about Math at every waking moment of your day and get sleep deprivation because your mind won't stop thinking about Mathematics, you can be like him.

(Although it is inspirational!)

[jasper12]

Hmm, would illegal aliens be contributing to the problems at CCSD?

[olecapt]

Originally Posted by Lazydriver

While amazing, he's a savant and he's also explaining Calculus at a much quicker rate than most people can understand. In this video, he also doesn't really explain much /behind/ the mathematics he is using, but then again, he's not really teaching, but showing his abilities. He doesn't delve into what a derivative or an integral is and how to solve for one, much less the other stuff.

But if you can think about Math at every waking moment of your day and get sleep deprivation because your mind won't stop thinking about Mathematics, you can be like him.

(Although it is inspirational!)

Me too...I actually can understand that stuff pretty much.. But he was off into the gobbledegock.

Maybe if you stop motioned it and carefully examined the parts it may actually be correct and make sense.

But if his attempt was to educate...he failed miserably.

To a very large degree I understand his problem. I know how this (or my version of it) works. I just can't explain it to the proletariat...

[Atlas1337]

People automatically fear Math for various reasons...

You can be assured that my children will fear my backhand far more than their math assignment.

And what about those broken families where they don't give a damn about their kids...

Those are the kids that need discipline the most. They aren't getting it at home, so we need to dole it out at school.

The trick is to keep students inspired, and not slumping in their chairs, quickly memorizing something to pass a test, and then forgetting it and hating it. Oh, and to get the students to enjoy using it in their daily life so they can get better at it. It's a language.

This is wishy-washy bull****. High paid life mentors are there to get you 'inspired.' That's not the purpose of primary school. Its the student's responsibility to learn. Its the teacher's job to present the material. Any kid who disrupts class or doesn't finish an assignment should be made to fall in line. Believe me, after a few lessons in my hypothetical class room, no student will be 'slumping.'

Even if vouchers paid 75% of the tuition and fees, the 25% might've been too much for my parents.

Education would be a fraction of its current price if the government bureaucracy was removed. People in sub-Saharan Africa send their kids to private schools, I think your parents would have managed. Low income families would have to sacrifice cable TV or something else, but they would then pay more attention to the quality of education since they can see their money is on the line.

[Danknee]

Originally Posted by Atlas1337

People automatically fear Math for various reasons...

You can be assured that my children will fear my backhand far more than their math assignment.

This website is against Corporal punishment (click), but so am I. I enjoy and appreciate that they used real statistics to draw conclusions instead of mere opinion. They show data indicating Corporal punishment results in:

• More student on student homicides in schools
• Lower ACT scores
• Lower graduation rates
• States that paddle have a higher incarceration rate.

Just don't be surprised when your kids turn out worse instead of better as a result of your physical and (I'm guessing you don't stop at physical) emotional punishments. Big man.

[Atlas1337]

Originally Posted by Danknee

This website is against Corporal punishment (click), but so am I. I enjoy and appreciate that they used real statistics to draw conclusions instead of mere opinion. They show data indicating Corporal punishment results in:

• More student on student homicides in schools
• Lower ACT scores
• Lower graduation rates
• States that paddle have a higher incarceration rate.

Just don't be surprised when your kids turn out worse instead of better as a result of your physical and (I'm guessing you don't stop at physical) emotional punishments. Big man.

Its easier not to discipline your kids. Most people claim they are too busy and think its 100% the school's responsibility to raise their kids. That's the problem.

Why do you think America has an obesity problem? It has nothing to do with McDonald's or 'portion size' and everything to do with a lack of self-discipline. Bad parents shovel soda & captain crunch down their kids' mouths, refuse to set limits, and the schools are legally barred from disciplining them as well.

As for state-to-state comparisons, there are so many hidden variables at play. I'm sure a lot of border states have high incarnation rates due to the drug trade, not because of paddling...

America as a whole has a higher incarceration rate than any country in the world, including police states like China and other states where corporal punishment is the norm. I guess America fails on your own metric :*(

In case you haven't figured it out, my point is that: Corporal punishment & incarceration rates have zero correlation.