illegal immigration; facts not emotion (middle east, violent crime, drug, Attorney)

[macmeal]

Originally Posted by ndfmnlf

The English we speak today is totally different from the English spoken at the time of Christopher Columbus.

Go figure.

Marvelous point. The world of medicine, laws, and the concept of refrigeration, and the notion of human rights--(not to mention the world map) were also quite different in the time of Columbus... How, exactly, is this relevant?

[ArizonaBear]

NOTE: virtually all English language dominant societies subscribe to the Rule of Law as well which began in Great Britain.

[macmeal]

Originally Posted by ndfmnlf

English must really be a , you guys who force others to conform to American culture had better define what it is you want them to conform to. there.

OK, how about we start by asking people to conform to the law.?...certainly the laws we have reflect American culture. So lets just say, for now, "all we ask of illegal aliens is no more than we ask of each other--start by conforming to the law".

Once that idea begins to take hold, we'll know more about how to proceed. In fact, that might just be ALL we have to ask....just conform to the law! Simple....

[vivski]

ndfmnlf:
i say only this in conclusion....court case # crcr961553,
state of new mexico vs. roberto flores.
the cost of the record from the court is 30 dollars...payable to the second judicial court of new mexico...or i could attach it in an email.,for free. if you ask nicely....MOD CUT


i know the cost of illegal immigration...and there is no way you will change my mind.. i do respect the fact you havent had to really feel what others have yet.but never deny me the right to feel how i feel...please.
thats american culture, allowing you to think exactly what you think...without the fear that someone will kill or arrest you for it...you can
thank my military family for that.
american since 1639...and very proud of it....these colors, red white and blue, will never run.


peace be with you...and also to you.

[vivski]

Originally Posted by ndfmnlf
In an old thread, I asked members of this forum to define American culture. I don't think anyone put up a coherent definition of it. The reason is obvious: American culture is hard to pin down because it draws from a wellspring of sources. The English language can't be used to define it as English is itself evolving. The English we speak today is totally different from the English spoken at the time of Christopher Columbus. Heck, even some members of the anti-immigration crowd on this forum cannot spell simple English words correctly. Why should Hispanic immigrants be ostracized for failing to conform to "American culture" when those making the demands are themselves incapable of satisfying their own standards?
i dont care what culture an immigrant comes from, i love them all.
yet i do believe that if you migrate anywhere you should be able to communicate, eventually(i'm not saying immediately) with citizens of that nation. and i think you should do it legally, with permission from it's government and citizens...this is not about legal immigration, it is about illegal immigration.

i would like to make one point, christopher columbus was italian.
and the country he went on the expedition was spain.
so what kind of english did he speak



again...i ask you this....if christopher columbus came over to america in the 1400's, and was italian, sailing an expedition for the indies, for the queen and king of spain what english did he or the people in spain or italy in that time speak?
america was founded in 1620 by the puritans...and they spoke english, christopher columbus didnt inhabitate america...he only discovered it... but after the puritans(men and women and children from england) landed on plymouth rock, on the mayflower..... english became the common language... my ansectors immigrated to america in 1639....and , i am also native american,of choctaw heritage, so please, understand when i say, it's ok to have one common language...it's ok for a nation to have a thousand different cultures, but in the end, a nation should stand as one. and if one of us falters from our duties, we all falter....
united we stand...divided we fall.

[vivski]

Originally Posted by macmeal

Thanks for trying Vivski--though I'm not sure some people will ever "get" that America has a culture, just because it's a "mix" of cultures. A mestizo is a "mix" of races---does this mean he "doesn't have a race"? Because strawberry-banana ice cream has no single flavor, do we then say that it "doesn't have any taste"?-----Ridiculous!...

Perhaps the following will help some of our more "stubborn" readers

AMERICAN CULTURE LOOKS FAVORABLY ON:
(1) Honesty
(2) Polite conversation
(3) The Rule of Law
(4) Protection of the rights of women and minorities
(5) Free Speech
(6) Special protections for children and young people
(7) Freedom of religion

These are features of many cultures, but in America we espouse all of these as our own..We as Americans feel these are GOOD qualities. Meanwhile, though...

AMERICAN CULTURE DEFINITELY FROWNS UPON:

(1) Incest
(2) Settling arguments with violence
(3) Revenge killings
(4) Using mass rape as an Instrument of War
(5) Selling of children into prostitution
(6) Beating of wives to "put them in their place"
(7) Eating dogs or cats

These are ALSO features of many cultures, in different parts of the world, but not here. In the rare instances that these DO occur here, they are prosecuted...because they are NOT part of the American culture.

Seems pretty clear to me. American culture, like any other, condones some practices, while condemning (and criminalizing) others. Some things are "American" values, and some are not.

Hope this helps point out the definition....

technology will not allow me to give you a good rep...but kudos go out from me to you on this response...i think i'm in love...lol....good post.

[ndfmnlf]

again...i ask you this....if christopher columbus came over to america in the 1400's, and was italian, sailing an expedition for the indies, for the queen and king of spain what english did he or the people in spain or italy in that time speak?

I think you have some serious problems comprehending simple contemporary English. The point is not that Columbus spoke English. The point is that the English spoken during the time of Columbus was different from the English spoken today. How about you look this topic up? Check this one out for starters: http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/society/A0858000.html

[ndfmnlf]

AMERICAN CULTURE LOOKS FAVORABLY ON:
(1) Honesty
(2) Polite conversation
(3) The Rule of Law
(4) Protection of the rights of women and minorities
(5) Free Speech
(6) Special protections for children and young people
(7) Freedom of religion

Nice try, but none of these things are unique to American culture.

[TriMT7]

Originally Posted by ndfmnlf

I think you have some serious problems comprehending simple contemporary English. The point is not that Columbus spoke English. The point is that the English spoken during the time of Columbus was different from the English spoken today. How about you look this topic up? Check this one out for starters: http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/society/A0858000.html

Why are we talking about Columbus again?

He discovered the Caribbean, not the United States.

[Kanien'keha:ka]

Illegal Alien Immagration. What the hell is that? I'm not writing this in anger, but why is there even such thing as that? No one is illegal to any country or any piece of land. There is no person, no matter who they are, that can claim that they own the land. It is impossible. The land is our life sustenance, it is not there to be taken apart and used to make money and only money, or to be "owned" by anyone. It is here to sustain all life on earth. Nobody and i will repeat it again...NOBODY CAN LAY CLAIM TO ANY PIECE OF LAND ON THIS EARTH. The land belongs to everyone, it is not owned by humans....HUMANS BELONG TO THE EARTH. We were created from that dirt that is within the earth. Our bodies are borrowed from that earth, and we try and claim that we own it and take control of it...and alter it the way we have for so many years....she's (the earth) is only going to take more and more people with her. People will die at an alarming rate if people dont smarten up and stop laying claim to the earth. again.....NOBODY OWNS THE LAND, WE ARE ALL CHILDREN OF THE EARTH...WE BELONG TO HER. WE DONT OWN HER WE BELONG TO HER. I cannot stress it any more than that. For there to be such a thing is Illegal Alien Immigration...that's just down right ILLEGALY! They say there are certain people who are illegal...but to have a law like that on an earth...on land that they dont even own....that's what is ILLEGAL.