illegal immigration; facts not emotion

[greatbasinguide]

Your statement has nothing to do with my point. I don't need to explain it again do I?

[macmeal]

Originally Posted by TriMT7

Because that's the way things worked up on planet earth until about 1960.

Don't like that rationale? Good luck fighting the history of mankind.

I, for one, don't buy your "car" analogy, either. It MORE like Canada claiming the moon, with no space program or means to defend their claim, and then whining when the US visits and plants a flag and builds a lunar base.

You have no business claiming that which you cannot protect. In this country today you can lose land you "own" through the concept of "adverse possession." Look it up sometime, and be sure to visit any land you may have inherited 10 years ago on the other side of the country but never got around to visiting.

It's actually a tenant of sovereignty that you can protect what you claim. ESPECIALLY if what you're trying to claim ownership over is stolen property twice removed from the original owners.

Chile is actually making a small attempt to "colonize" the Antarctic Peninsula for this very reason. There are actually a few families there, and there have been a few births. Their aim is to validate their claim to the peninsula, just south of Cape Horn. Many nations claim pieces of the continent, but I know of no others attempting to "settle" families there. It's a stretch to call this actual "settlement", but that's their aim.

As I've said before, Mexican claims to the entire US Southwest are VERY questionable. They actually occupied the narrow Southern coast (only) of California---a small area near Tucson---the narrow Rio Grande valley and the mountainous area north of Santa Fe and the San Luis Valley (Colorado), But beyond that, they had only a "paper claim" to this vast area, and made no practical use of it at all--even the Central Valley of California wasn't occupied.
The above areas, plus South Texas, don't really amount to much of a claim to the whole area.

Remember, the English (Sir Francis Drake) once claimed California, too ("New Albion")---so did the Russians, from their base in Alaska. They built Fort Ross--still standing today (or at least a replica). But those former caims are no longer taken seriously.

[Lakewooder]

Texas wants the front range of Colorado back! Oh wait, we've been buying it for years.

[vivski]

Originally Posted by greatbasinguide

It most surely was stealing. Consider this, two small armed American groups entered the Southwest, Colonel Kearny took Santa Fe and marched through AZ to CA, while Fremont came down from Oregon, Why?

At the same time the US Navy took the west coast ports of Mexico.
One US army took El Paso and all the land through to and including Chihuhua (sp?)
Another crossed the Rio Grande and took (barely) Monterrey.
Another entered at Vera Cruz and took Mexico City.
The Americans occupied Mexico City and the west coast ports for two years.

Can you tell me why?

The treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo ended the war, a condition of the treaty was the "purchase" of half Mexico.

Like someone puts a gun to your head to steal your car, and tosses you a C note, he did not steal it, he bought it!

with due respect..get over it...my anscestors have...none of the native americans, who also call themselves, chrokee, or choctaw or navajo, or jemez, or santa ana, or apache are crying out for a war because some ****e man stole their land....again...it is past..lets get on with th efuture.

[vivski]

Originally Posted by greatbasinguide

The problem I am attempting to educate ya'll upon is the rationale for Mexican resentment against the US, and the rationale for at least some of the immigration to the US, What Julius Caesar did to the Gauls is not important for the purposes of our discussion, nor what Cortez did.

If I wanted to slam the US I would draw out the parallels between Polk's invasion of Mexico and Bush's invasion of Iraq.

and exactly what would that prove?
that you feel war in iraq is unjust?
whatever.
i watched the news, and saw the thousands of kurds slaughtered by sadamm huesien...i saw biological weapons used on innocent women , men and children because of a hitler type character...in afghanistan i saw people slaughtered because of their beliefs.
did you?
the war in iraq and afghanistan has nothing to do with illegal immigration other than the fact that the men who committed these heinous crimes against humanity were in our country illegally.
and when you speak of america being a horrible nation,or some kind of inhuman super power that steals what is not theirs.... remember this, we are our brothers keepers, and whether the supreme court calls religion unconstitutional or not, americans do believe that we should protect others freedoms....and are willing to fight for it with their lives...no questions asked...no answers given...

[dynimagelv]

Originally Posted by Lakewooder

Texas wants the front range of Colorado back! Oh wait, we've been buying it for years.

Saw a bumper sticker in Denver....said "IF GOD WANTED TEXANS TO SKI HE OF PAINTED BS WHITE" lol.....Just seemd like an appropriate place to slip that in

[macmeal]

Originally Posted by dynimagelv

Saw a bumper sticker in Denver....said "IF GOD WANTED TEXANS TO SKI HE OF PAINTED BS WHITE" lol.....Just seemd like an appropriate place to slip that in

Texans DO seem to generate strong emotions wherever they go---After the great Alaska Pipeline was finished and put into service (employing a heavily SOUTHERN workforce--it WAS an OIL pipeline, remember), and as the chaos ended and life got back to normal, a common bumper sticker in Fairbanks was "HAPPINESS IS 10,000 TEXANS HEADED SOUTH.....with an Okie under Each Arm".....