Mexicans Are Native Americans (illegals, racism, reconquista, USA)

[D-Towner]

Originally Posted by Tomahawk742

We sometimes forget or we try not to comprehend the fact that the Mexicans have lived in the Americas for thousands upon thousand of years just like the Indians. We also make the mistake of calling the Spanish Mexicans but the Spanish are from Europe and the Mexicans consider the Spanish White. We also label the Spanish Mexicans because they came from South America up through Mexico and into what is now the United States so we assume the Spanish are Mexicans.
But if that is the case that the Spanish are Mexicans then the Anglos that came across the United States through Indian country and Married Indian women or Indian Men should be considered Indians. Ask any Anglo and most have Indian Blood, Cherokee, Apache, etc. Or related to the Spanish in some way but we ignore that fact.
We all need to understand our history of America being a Melting Pot and try to comprehend the fact that we are all related in some way through marriage or Friendship like it or not. The Mexicans are treated like Slaves and Animals and not as the True Native Americans that they are.
Is it any wonder that there is so much hate in the Americas and it is all because WE dont understand our history or we try to ignore the True History of this country. >>> To understand some of the true history of our country we need to read the book.... North From Mexico by Carey McWilliams and get educated on our history instead of turning a blind eye on our people and trying to get rid of people who are our relatives, friends and neighbors and who have helped in building our country when we learn to do this then We can call ourselves True Christians and only then can We start to tear the Wall of Racism in this Country.

fail

[Edu983]

Originally Posted by Tomahawk742

We sometimes forget or we try not to comprehend the fact that the Mexicans have lived in the Americas for thousands upon thousand of years just like the Indians. We also make the mistake of calling the Spanish Mexicans but the Spanish are from Europe and the Mexicans consider the Spanish White. We also label the Spanish Mexicans because they came from South America up through Mexico and into what is now the United States so we assume the Spanish are Mexicans.
But if that is the case that the Spanish are Mexicans then the Anglos that came across the United States through Indian country and Married Indian women or Indian Men should be considered Indians. Ask any Anglo and most have Indian Blood, Cherokee, Apache, etc. Or related to the Spanish in some way but we ignore that fact.
We all need to understand our history of America being a Melting Pot and try to comprehend the fact that we are all related in some way through marriage or Friendship like it or not. The Mexicans are treated like Slaves and Animals and not as the True Native Americans that they are.
Is it any wonder that there is so much hate in the Americas and it is all because WE dont understand our history or we try to ignore the True History of this country. >>> To understand some of the true history of our country we need to read the book.... North From Mexico by Carey McWilliams and get educated on our history instead of turning a blind eye on our people and trying to get rid of people who are our relatives, friends and neighbors and who have helped in building our country when we learn to do this then We can call ourselves True Christians and only then can We start to tear the Wall of Racism in this Country.

Native Americans came from Asia through Alaska (Bridge that united Asia-America).

Native Americans did not come from Southern America, all Native Americans are genetically the same, Mongoloid=Asian.

A Mexican of Aztec ancestry is the same as a U.S. American of Cherokee ancestry.

[Agnapostate]

Originally Posted by Fox Terrier

They are native CENTRAL American, not American, as in the US of A.

Try again...

Mexico is not in Central America.

The U.S. also does not possess a monopoly over the term "American," since it describes a continent. The word is derived from the name of an Italian naval explorer, Amerigo Vespucci, who made landfall in South America, in present-day Guyana and Brazil.

Originally Posted by malamute

Actually most Mexicans are a blend of black, Central-American Indian and white. Not Native-American at all,

Most Mexicans are predominantly Native American, minority European, and slightly West African. There is an increasing gradient of Indian ancestry in the southern regions of the country associated with the high population densities of the region called "Mesoamerica." Generally, southern Mexicans are majority Indian, and northern Mexicans are majority European, but southern Mexicans outnumber northern Mexicans.

Originally Posted by malamute

and in fact Mexico didn't even exist as a nation until the Spaniards came can created it.

Mexico did not exist as a nation until the War of Independence against Spain; prior to that, it was a colony called "New Spain."

Originally Posted by malamute

And a Mexican Aztec was no more the same thing as a US Iroquois than a Polish person is the same thing as a Frenchman.

That's somewhat of an exaggeration. In genetic terms, Aztecs and Iroquois Indians are more closely related than French and Polish Europeans, since Native Americans are the most genetically homogenous continental population, as evidenced by Genetic Variation and Population Structure in Native Americans: "We examined genetic diversity and population structure in the American landmass using 678 autosomal microsatellite markers genotyped in 422 individuals representing 24 Native American populations sampled from North, Central, and South America. These data were analyzed jointly with similar data available in 54 other indigenous populations worldwide, including an additional five Native American groups. The Native American populations have lower genetic diversity and greater differentiation than populations from other continental regions."

More importantly, Iroquois and Aztec peoples do have a shared experience of victimization through Western European colonialism that has caused residual distributive injustice.

Originally Posted by TriMT7

"Native Central Americans," maybe. SOME of them, yes. A LOT of them, yes.

Mexico is not in Central America.

Originally Posted by TriMT7

I don't buy the 'one drop' rule, as that is a vestige of old colonial white supremacist attitudes, and is hardly applicable in today's world.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by TriMT7

The fact remains that the vast majority of Mexican Indian mixture - Aztec and Maya - was NEVER represented in the borders of the United States.

Your point is more or less true, but I would note two things. First, while "Aztec and Maya" covers a significant number of the Indian peoples of southern Mexico, there are many non-Aztec and non-Mayan Indians in that region also, and Indians of northern Mexico are not Aztecs and Mayans at all.

Originally Posted by TriMT7

Indeed, the true native inhabitants of the American southwest - such as the Apache - despised the Mexicans and Spanish as invaders as much as they did the (Anglo) Americans.

Actually, the Southern Athabaskans, represented by the modern day Apaches and Navajos, are fairly recent migrants to the Southwest, and possibly to the Americas, if the multiple-migration theory that posits that Athabaskans (or the "Na-Dene" peoples) came millenniums after the initial colonization is correct.

The arrival of these peoples into the Southwest was possibly a cause of the downfall of the Anasazi, Mogollon, and Hohokam civilizations, depending on the time of their migration, and was fiercely opposed by other Indian peoples that they raided, such as the Pueblo peoples. There is a Navajo-Hopi conflict to this day, for example.

Originally Posted by chicagonut

Those referred to as native Americans which would have included the tribal ancestors of the Mexicans aka the Aztecs, Mayans, etc. came here through the Bering Strait.

Proto-Indians may have migrated through the Bering Strait, but may have also come through a Pacific coastal route.

Originally Posted by chicagonut

The tribal ancestors of the Mexicans settled in what is now the country of Mexico and also south of there. They never settled in the USA. The different tribes indigenous to this continent settled in various parts of it. The descendants of those tribes who settled here in "this" country are U.S. citizens. Why do you think we don't have any Aztec or Mayan reservations in this country?

Let me preface my statement on this by saying that I do not believe that citizenship rights should be based on ethnic lineage.

However, many of the people of the northern border regions of Mexico are descended at least in part by Indian tribes that claimed territory on both sides of the border. Some of these tribes exist today, such as the Tohono O'odham and Akimel O'odham (Pima), and the Mescalero, Chiricahua, and Lipan Apaches.

Other tribes such as the Janos, Jocomes, Sumas, Jumanos, Conchos, Tobosos, and others, eventually became assimilated by other ethnic groups, particularly Apaches and Mexican "mestizos."



While these tribes are considered culturally "extinct" in terms of being distinct ethnic groups, there are certainly people in northern Mexico with tribal ancestors.

To reiterate, however, I do not believe that citizenship rights should be based on ancestral lineage or ethnic background per se.

Originally Posted by chicagonut

When the Spanish came here they also claimed Mexico at one time and that is how the Mestizo mixed race began. The Spanish mated with the Aztecs, Mayans, etc. Mexico is comprised of 60% Mestizos.

The CIA World Factbook does state that the Mexican population is "60% mestizo." However, "mestizo" is not a genetically meaningful or well-defined term. It initially referred to the child of a European parent and an Amerindian parent, but now generally refers to detribalized people of Latin America with Indian lineage, regardless of their precise admixture proportions. For a further review, see The Mestizo Concept: A Product of European Imperialism

Originally Posted by chicagonut

The fact remains that we have treaties with those tribes that were indigenous to this country, they have their soveirgn lands here and are U.S. citizens. If someone south of our border wants to claim their ancestors were also then let them take it up with our government or more importantly with the tribes here they are claiming to be a descendant of.

As a matter of fact, there are several hundred Tohono O'odham in Sonora. The T.O. tribal government has been petitioning the federal government to grant them U.S. citizenship for many years: Sonoran O'odham

Originally Posted by chicagonut

If a native indian has a Spanish surname it is because he/she is of mixed blood of Spanish (white) and native indian aka a Mestizo.

Native Americans were subject to various pressures of colonization, including compulsory adoption of colonial names. Adoption of Castilian or Spanish names in particular may symbolize Roman Catholic baptism or another form of detribalization, and not necessarily admixture.

It's also worth noting again that the poorly defined term "mestizo" seems to only be applied to Latin American people, and is almost never applied to Indians in Anglo American countries, regardless of their levels of European admixture.

Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns

Seems the Chicano's started it.

Unless you regard an ethnic group as a hiveminded collective with unity of thought and action, there doesn't seem to be a basis for attacking random people in East Los Angeles because of the actions of some other individuals in downtown Los Angeles.

[chicagonut]

Originally Posted by Tomahawk742

Apparently the President of the United States wife thought it was bad enough to say it was a shameful part of American History of course there are two parts to the story read the real part in the book North from Mexico by Carey McWilliams its not at all like its being explained here but i guess Denial can be a river in Egypt for some.

Get some new lines. This one is getting old.

[chicagonut]

Originally Posted by Edu983

Native Americans came from Asia through Alaska (Bridge that united Asia-America).

Native Americans did not come from Southern America, all Native Americans are genetically the same, Mongoloid=Asian.

A Mexican of Aztec ancestry is the same as a U.S. American of Cherokee ancestry.

Perhaps racially but they formed different tribes and settled in different areas of the continent with different cultures and languages. No different then the white Europeans that settled in the different areas of Europe. Different countries were formed with different cultures and languages. The only similarity they have today is that they are white racially but they can't live in each other's country just based on racial similarities.

[Agnapostate]

Originally Posted by chicagonut

Perhaps racially but they formed different tribes and settled in different areas of the continent with different cultures and languages. No different then the white Europeans that settled in the different areas of Europe. Different countries were formed with different cultures and languages. The only similarity they have today is that they are white racially but they can't live in each other's country just based on racial similarities.

Again, this is true in a very broad sense, but Native Americans do have closer genetic relationships than Europeans (not that I consider that meaningful), and more importantly, have a basis for ethnic solidarity based on a similar position in society caused by shared experiences, i.e. land theft and genocide.

I would add, however, that the different cultures and languages of Native Americans do not conform to modern political boundaries, a point which seems to be consistently misunderstood. These are the approximate boundaries of different culture areas.

[Liquid Reigns]

Originally Posted by Tomahawk742

Apparently the President of the United States wife thought it was bad enough to say it was a shameful part of American History of course there are two parts to the story read the real part in the book North from Mexico by Carey McWilliams its not at all like its being explained here but i guess Denial can be a river in Egypt for some.

You do realize that Carey McWilliams was a "Radical" Progressive, right. You seem to be taking what he has opined on and you are claiming it as fact, when it was nothing more than his opinion. He starts his book by telling you that, you should only take it for what it is, "radical" opinion. Chicano Studies use his views, they are not "fact". You really should learn to comprehend vs spouting ignorance.

[chicagonut]

Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns

You do realize that Carey McWilliams was a "Radical" Progressive, right. You seem to be taking what he has opined on and you are claiming it as fact, when it was nothing more than his opinion. He starts his book by telling you that, you should only take it for what it is, "radical" opinion. Chicano Studies use his views, they are not "fact". You really should learn to comprehend vs spouting ignorance.

[Liquid Reigns]

Originally Posted by chicagonut

McWilliams uses language as the lowest common denominator thus he links true Spanish with Mexican Immigrants, he does this to blur the lines and create a vision that he wants one to believe. Thus we have Tomahawk spouting things he doesn't fully understand as fact when they are but fallacy. Its just like calling Illegal aliens = immigrants, its meant to invoke a more humane version. Nothing but Propaganda.

[Tomahawk742]

Denial is a River in Egypt for some of you and since most of the True History has been covered up over the years or hidden its easy to Deny anything said about the true History of the southwest. Some cultures we know their History going back to when they were monkeys but the Latinos and Spanish dont know their history going back 100 years because lots of the books and information has been hid or destroyed.
The Latinos are invisible on our Color TVs all we see is blk and wht.