2020 Houston-Dallas bullet train (San Antonio, Austin, Waco: price, centers, moving)

[Dopo]

Originally Posted by H'ton

Houston and Dallas are metros with 6+ million people and easily the two most dominant metros in the state.... if not the entire region. Austin is a metro with under 1.75 million people. While it is growing quickly it is still minor league compared to Dallas and Houston.

Do the right thing and conned Houston and Dallas first.

Keep in mind that tourism is HUGE factor.
A line from South Padre Island to Galveston would be absolutely amazing for tourism in the state.

[dallasboi]

Originally Posted by ClarenceBodiker

Sorry, I can't keep silent on this any longer.

What does this have to do with anything? You really are the worst Dallas representative on this site. You really are a troll and you serve no purpose other than trying to stir things up with Houston people. This post is ridiculous and has nothing to do with the conversation of HSR between Houston and Dallas. It's embarrassing how worked up you get about nothing. Maybe you are joking, but nobody can tell. So in the end, you sound like an ignorant dumbass. Get a new hobby.

ClarencebBodiker....I am hardly a troll...now I may have over-did that post but i no longer care about being nice little poster anymore...it goes un noticed...and nobody really cares...but on the flip side I want you to point out two post of mine where i stirred something up....now i always respond to stuff but I NEVER and I mean NEVER start anything. Now I may not be "Mr. Goody Two shoes" like u would want me to be but who is??...

And to answer your question...My post has alot to do with this. Any sane indivisual would know that the best route for this would be from Dallas to Houston(The two Major cities) and the fact that they keep saying austin and commuting back an forth to work and getting to austin in 45 mins. It becomes clear that Houstonians want a sister city.......I really really liked you as a fellow Dallas poster but u called me a ignorant dumbass.....that hurt......so F**k you

[annie_himself]

Originally Posted by dallasboi

ClarencebBodiker....I am hardly a troll...now I may have over-did that post but i no longer care about being nice little poster anymore...it goes un noticed...and nobody really cares...but on the flip side I want you to point out two post of mine where i stirred something up....now i always respond to stuff but I NEVER and I mean NEVER start anything. Now I may not be "Mr. Goody Two shoes" like u would want me to be but who is??...

And to answer your question...My post has alot to do with this. Any sane indivisual would know that the best route for this would be from Dallas to Houston(The two Major cities) and the fact that they keep saying austin and commuting back an forth to work and getting to austin in 45 mins. It becomes clear that Houstonians want a sister city.......I really really liked you as a fellow Dallas poster but u called me a ignorant dumbass.....that hurt......so F**k you

So you think because they want a line to Austin that they want to be like DFW? That's ignorant and, well dumb. It's faster, cheaper, shorter, etc than a line to Dallas.

[Truth713]

Originally Posted by dallasboi

Houstonians want it to go to austin so they can feel like they have a lay-out like Dallas and Ft.Worth....You know the reigon that they bash for having two cities against 1....Its funny to me. They feel like if they could get to austin in 45 minutes it would closely resemble the TRE and Austin could then be added to their Metro because of commute patterns....You guys kill me...I knew yall loved and envy DFW.......yall just hate to admit it.

what the hell , dude two cities against one w, thats like saying to take on someone you have to go get your buddy, thats nothing to brag about, Dallas is a fine city and linking the two would only benifit both, since I know large number of people who work in one and have familiy in the other , they would welcome the chance to be able to go home on the weekend, austin is just closer to houston than dallas therefore it would make a decent test bed to work out the kinks. has nothing to do with wanting to feel like dallas, truth be told dallas should worry about fortworth over shadowing them , since its on the rasie and may not want to keep playing the role of littlle brother for much longer

[MIBS98]

All this talk of lines to Austin, San Antonio, Galveston, South Padre, etc. is lovely but not remotely realistic. I have strong doubt as to whether a Houston to Dallas line will truly materialize, but it is the only line in Texas that makes any possible economic sense.

I used to live in Europe and took the train all the time. I lived in Korea and took the train anytime I had to travel to other parts of the country. Korea and Europe share something in common: in both places it was common to take the train for travel well before bullet trains showed up (how many people on this board have been on an inter-city train in the past 20 years?), and both have a far greater density than Texas (or most of the US).

Bullet lines are expensive - the originally referenced article suggest $10 billion for a line between Houston and Dallas, I guarantee that is too low. To make that viable, you need to have a very high utilization rate on 8-10 trains each way each day. The bullet trains running between major cities in Europe have between 500-700 seats so let's assume that would be the case here.

Are you going to fill 700 seats, 10 times per day, 7 days per week, 52 weeks per year running from South Padre to Galveston? Houston to Austin? No.

The competition point for trains like these are airlines. The price is not that different from an airline. When I lived in London, I had the choice of the Eurostar or flying every time I went to Paris. The Eurostar was not measurably cheaper, but it was significantly more convenient so I always took Eurostar. Today, the very cheapest discount seats on the Eurostar from London to Paris are the equivalent of $160 round trip.

Basically, someone who was going to drive rather than pay to fly to Dallas is unlikely to decide to pay $160 round trip to take the train then have to rent cars, etc. So question on a route like this is what do the passenger loads look like going back and forth by airline. Are they large enough to make a train viable? For Dallas and Houston, they might be but I'd guess it is marginal at best.

Only place in the US that really makes sense for a bullet train is Boston to D.C. Along the way you have not only NYC and Baltimore, but you have many other sizable towns and cities to where you could run a local train with people getting off and on at several stops along the way, or you could run the express between each city. The airline shuttle traffic between these cities is large enough to support a train. Many people take the train already between these cities.

[MIBS98]

Short version of my post for those who can't read the long version. Used to take bullet trains all the time in Europe and Korea but more importantly I worked for an infrastructure fund that invested in these types of projects so I know a little bit of what I speak (not an expert though).

Forget about trains to Austin or daily commutes from Dallas. Given the costs involved, a line like this needs to have a high headcount on 8-10 round-trips per day with trains that seat 500-700 people and needs to charge fares that are not far off airline fares.

The target customer is not someone who opts to drive to Dallas rather than to fly and incur car rental or taxi costs once there. That person likely won't take the train. Target is the flyers. The train is usually more convenient, ironically it is faster door-to-door and once established will charge fares that are 75-90% of airline fares (bigger discount where it comes to business class).

Cheapest fares between London and Paris for the Eurostar are $160. This train would probably charge close to the same although I could see fares as low as $100 if passenger counts were high enough.

[blkgiraffe]

Originally Posted by MIBS98

All this talk of lines to Austin, San Antonio, Galveston, South Padre, etc. is lovely but not remotely realistic. I have strong doubt as to whether a Houston to Dallas line will truly materialize, but it is the only line in Texas that makes any possible economic sense.

I have to disagree. I think a line along the I-35 corridor makes much more sense. Lots of traffic and connection between those cities and it's a very traveled corridor. Much busier than 45. Dallas to Waco to Killeen/Temple to Austin to San Antonio. It just makes too much sense. Dallas to Houston line is just a huge waste. Nothing going on between Houston and Dallas.

[MIBS98]

$100-$150 per ticket plus either car rentals or taxi's versus driving 2 hours or so. Which do you think people are more likely to do? Be honest.

The amount of passenger traffic from Houston to San Antonio is very low and it is mostly tourist traffic. Again, $100-150 per ticket plus rental or taxi's versus driving 3 hours. Which do you think people are more likely to do?

Remember, the capital cost for a train line that runs from Houston to San Antonio through Austin is not going to be significantly different from Houston to Dallas. Fares are going to have to be about the same.

Again, with these types of projects you are looking at the people who drive as your customer, you are looking at the people who fly. In this area, your competition boils down simply to Southwest. So, let me help you out with some simple info to show the difference in passenger traffic:

Southwest has 5 non-stop flights per day from Houston to San Antonio

Southwest has 5 non-stop flights per day from Houston to Austin

Southwest has close to 30 non-stop flights per day from Houston to Dallas

Guess which route has more passenger traffic?

[dallasboi]

Originally Posted by annie_himself

So you think because they want a line to Austin that they want to be like DFW? That's ignorant and, well dumb. It's faster, cheaper, shorter, etc than a line to Dallas.

No..It means that they want a sister city...which is similar to the way DFW is laid out....and that is not ignorant and dumb...

[Truth713]

Originally Posted by dallasboi

No..It means that they want a sister city...which is similar to the way DFW is laid out....and that is not ignorant and dumb...

Why would Houston want or need a sister city, your saying things but not making any real or logical case,

What does it benifit Houston to have a sister city, when I economy alone powers us and keeps us in top stops ?

If we wanted a sister city would.nt galaveston make more sense given its closer to Houston than any other and next to the beaches, in fact you could say those cities already have sister relationship simiar to fortworth/dallas . since when you say galveston most people say " Houston anyway".

I really do think your trolling since you have not actually stated why you think we want a sister city, other than some absurd noticion we want to be like dallas