Shuttle Comments (Houston: place, town, limit)

[TimBomb]

Originally Posted by Queen Palm

Or perhaps the reality that people genuinely like Houston and love living here screws up your "reasoning". It's why you and a couple of others continue to spew as much negativity as you can about the city. Hoping to persuade the masses.

I'll tell you what I told that other one: You Fail. Miserably.

persuade? why? I'm just popping balloons
the geek linggo doesnt really fit you

[Sunderpig2]

TimBomb and I see it differently because we have been more close to the whole shuttle matter, and the space industry. We have a much better understanding of the differences - not only between JSC and KSC - but the larger picture of Texas vs. Florida. Unless you have that perspective, you'll won't understand just how badly Houston blew it.

The people responsible for getting JSC a shuttle expected it to be a cake walk. But the shuttles are expensive, and we don't just automatically get one because we're "Big Texas" and we "deserve one". It's that kind of cocky egotism that gets us in trouble; thinking and acting like we're better than everyone (everywhere) else. It's a refusal to open our eyes to see reality, at the risk of bruising our ego, and putting us in our place.

Besides... JSC has been more about astronauts, training, and mission control - not the rockets or the vehicles themselves. At least the shuttle (we could have gotten) went to a place that focuses on aeronautical travel, appropriately enough.

[AK123]

Originally Posted by Sunderpig

TimBomb and I see it differently because we have been more close to the whole shuttle matter, and the space industry.

In what way? Compared to who? If this was mentioned before, I don't remember it.

Honestly, with some of the comments made on here (especially by him) I have a hard time taking that seriously.

[TimBomb]

<not a professional opinion>
if the shuttles were getting a funeral they could bury it in Houston. But since it is a symbol of America then I should be proudly displayed where everyone can (easily) see it.
</end of story, laidbackers>

[Queen Palm]

Originally Posted by Sunderpig

TimBomb and I see it differently because we have been more close to the whole shuttle matter, and the space industry. We have a much better understanding of the differences - not only between JSC and KSC - but the larger picture of Texas vs. Florida. Unless you have that perspective, you'll won't understand just how badly Houston blew it.

The people responsible for getting JSC a shuttle expected it to be a cake walk. But the shuttles are expensive, and we don't just automatically get one because we're "Big Texas" and we "deserve one". It's that kind of cocky egotism that gets us in trouble; thinking and acting like we're better than everyone (everywhere) else. It's a refusal to open our eyes to see reality, at the risk of bruising our ego, and putting us in our place.

Besides... JSC has been more about astronauts, training, and mission control - not the rockets or the vehicles themselves. At least the shuttle (we could have gotten) went to a place that focuses on aeronautical travel, appropriately enough.

Sunder, I understand what you are saying, and I'm not dismissing it altogether. There is some ego and pride here, definately.

However, if the issue is "ego" then, and that was the sole reason why Houston and Texas was not rewarded a shuttle, then I would think that NYC would not have received one either.

It is my understanding that it was pre-determined awhile back (and efforts made) that Houston would NOT be getting one. It seems to me that the "ego" reasoning was to try to justify afterwards, why they weren't going to send one here. Their minds were already made up beforehand.

Nevertheless, the decision(s) have been made......

[Sunderpig2]

I work in the industry, so that's why I said I was close to it. I guess it's someone else who I was thinking of for the other "inside" information (DanielWayne?)

This wasn't a pre-determined decision. Houston certainly could have increased the chances to get a shuttle, and maybe even been successful. I.e. if attention to details, enthusiam, and a "can-do" attitude (I know that sounds dumb) had been applied. If those involved could have put together a plan and a desire to attract more people to JSC/Space Center Houston, then it could have made a bid difference. But there was basically none of that, and little to no effort applied. Just an attitude as though it was a slam-dunk matter.

[Queen Palm]

Originally Posted by Sunderpig

I work in the industry, so that's why I said I was close to it. I guess it's someone else who I was thinking of for the other "inside" information (DanielWayne?)

This wasn't a pre-determined decision. Houston certainly could have increased the chances to get a shuttle, and maybe even been successful. I.e. if attention to details, enthusiam, and a "can-do" attitude (I know that sounds dumb) had been applied. If those involved could have put together a plan and a desire to attract more people to JSC/Space Center Houston, then it could have made a bid difference. But there was basically none of that, and little to no effort applied. Just an attitude as though it was a slam-dunk matter.

just as KSC was a "slam-dunk" matter, right? Aside from whatever issues of "ego" and "pride", it was a "no-brainer" and logical decision to send one to KSC. It was an obvious and correct choice. So why not JSC... I think that most (and this is coming from someone looking from the outside) logically expected one to come here. Egos or not.

[Sunderpig2]

KSC has always had much more going for it. I can't express in the limited format here just how much farther advanced they have been (and continue to be) compared to JSC. More importantly, KSC has had consistently high viewing/tourist/visitation numbers, probably second only to the Smithsonian. You could say that KSC has been a slam dunk. But Houston? No.

[ethanw]

I would not compare JSC and KSC as far where the space shuttle is going to be. KSC is definitely the right place for one of them and yes they're more advanced than Houston.

But NY and CA? that's where my beef really is as far as the space shuttle placement goes. Seriously....

Originally Posted by Sunderpig

KSC has always had much more going for it. I can't express in the limited format here just how much farther advanced they have been (and continue to be) compared to JSC. More importantly, KSC has had consistently high viewing/tourist/visitation numbers, probably second only to the Smithsonian. You could say that KSC has been a slam dunk. But Houston? No.

[RocketSci]

Originally Posted by ethanw

I would not compare JSC and KSC as far where the space shuttle is going to be. KSC is definitely the right place for one of them and yes they're more advanced than Houston.

But NY and CA? that's where my beef really is as far as the space shuttle placement goes. Seriously....

I visited Space Center Houston with a group of out of town guests a couple of weeks ago. All I can say is that it was a very pathetic and uninteresting visit, and the weather (over 100 deg) did not help. The tram tour only visited the rocket park and Mission Control, but did not even stop at any of the simulators, test facilities, or the Apollo Control Room. There were no guides or knowledgeable help when visiting the rocket park or the "barn" that hides (I mean holds) the Saturn. The visitor center is mostly an expanded Chuck E Cheese style play area, with very little of interest to real space buffs, with the exception of the IMAX show, and most "special" areas cost extra. The cost is ridiculous for what you get, starting with a parking fee just to get in the lot. We even were disappointed when we looked for Space Station souvenirs in the gift shop and there was nothing other than a patch or two.

I felt very embarrassed for Houston and the Space Center, because I know there could have been so much more to offer. Adding a shuttle to the mess of a visitor's center would have been a waste without major changes to how it currently is designed and operates.