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Africans have been present in Europe from classical times. In the 2nd and 3rd centuries Roman soldiers of African origin served in Britain, and some stayed after their military service ended. According to the historians Fryer, Edwards and Walvin, in the 9th century Viking fleets raided North Africa and Spain, captured Black people, and took them to Britain and Ireland. From the end of the 15th century we begin to see more evidence for the presence of Black Moors in the accounts of the reign of King James IV of Scotland, and later in Elizabethan England.
Africans have been present in Europe from classical times. In the 2nd and 3rd centuries Roman soldiers of African origin served in Britain, and some stayed after their military service ended. According to the historians Fryer, Edwards and Walvin, in the 9th century Viking fleets raided North Africa and Spain, captured Black people, and took them to Britain and Ireland. From the end of the 15th century we begin to see more evidence for the presence of Black Moors in the accounts of the reign of King James IV of Scotland, and later in Elizabethan England.
Idiotic. For Romans, Africans were Tingitanians and Mauretanians (Berbers and Libyophoenicians).
Africans have been present in Europe from classical times. In the 2nd and 3rd centuries Roman soldiers of African origin served in Britain, and some stayed after their military service ended. According to the historians Fryer, Edwards and Walvin, in the 9th century Viking fleets raided North Africa and Spain, captured Black people, and took them to Britain and Ireland. From the end of the 15th century we begin to see more evidence for the presence of Black Moors in the accounts of the reign of King James IV of Scotland, and later in Elizabethan England.
You would have to take up your complaint with the National Archives in the UK,Unless of course you know more than them in that case I will defer to you and other posters who think the National Archives is bunch of idiotic internet history hacks in the UK.
The deal is that Moors have an ancient history all throughout Afrika not just in Morocco, the Dogon and the Moors are basically the same people they have the same COSMIC history. The Moors were the world travelers before there was world travelers, you got to see the bigger picture. Those "slaves" in pre-Colonial Amerikkka pictures, were actually Moors. The Olmecs are known to be Moors, they (Moors) are all over this world as well as Afrika. So to even question if the Moors were black is like questioning if the Ford vehicle was first made in Amerikkka.
The deal is that Moors have an ancient history all throughout Afrika not just in Morocco, the Dogon and the Moors are basically the same people they have the same COSMIC history. The Moors were the world travelers before there was world travelers, you got to see the bigger picture. Those "slaves" in pre-Colonial Amerikkka pictures, were actually Moors. The Olmecs are known to be Moors, they (Moors) are all over this world as well as Afrika. So to even question if the Moors were black is like questioning if the Ford vehicle was first made in Amerikkka.
Would those be the theories that got Ivan van Sertima laughed at? Those are usually the theories that Afrocentrics try to avoid when these discussions come up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto
Before I become re-involved on this thread, would someone care to define "Black" as a distinct group of people.
Thank you in advance.
I'd love a definition too. I've stupidly gotten engaged in these debates a few times and they always tend to revolve around a semantical argument over "black". "Black" is a social construct and what I have often seen people in these debates do is pull a "Diop" and simply interchangably use the term "African" and "black" as if they are one in the same, they are not. One can be "African" and at the same time not be "black" per the social definition.
So, one group says they are "African, as in from the continent of Africa, but not black per the social definition" and the other starts howling that they are "black", period.
I'd love a definition too. I've stupidly gotten engaged in these debates a few times and they always tend to revolve around a semantical argument over "black". "Black" is a social construct and what I have often seen people in these debates do is pull a "Diop" and simply interchangably use the term "African" and "black" as if they are one in the same, they are not. One can be "African" and at the same time not be "black" per the social definition.
So, one group says they are "African, as in from the continent of Africa, but not black per the social definition" and the other starts howling that they are "black", period.
If people weren't so intent on labeling people based on physical features, then this wouldn't even be an issue. The Moors were Africans, a particular ethnic group. They don't need to be classed by physical features any more than Igbos of Nigeria.
If people weren't so intent on labeling people based on physical features,
If there wasn't so much at stake this would be an easy issue to resolve, unfortunately the ethos of western history depends on this phenological taxonomy as a justification for exploitation, self-aggrandizement, and more recently a sense of both collective and individual self-worth.
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