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Firstly, that is an old proverb as old as dirt. I;'m not changing it, even if I knew you were a girl.
Second, do you agree with abortions in, for example, danger to the mother, incest and/or rape?
Danger to the mother? Well it depends. Are we talking "Mental health"? No. If we are talking certain death of the mother? Then I think the doctors have an obligation to save the one who is most likely to live.. not something I want to decide, that's for sure.
Incest? No, because if was consensual then it's the people involved issue to deal with.. If it's not then it falls under rape.
Rape.. I have a hard time with. Personally I don't know how someone can allow a baby to be put in the position of having to be aborted with the advent of Plan B.. but while I don't think it's right, I can't condemn (well I wouldn't condemn anyone for having an abortion, I don't think it's right at all but I know that it's a hard choice and wound that never heals) someone for doing it. I think it's still ending the life of a baby though. I'm not sure if they made abortion illegal what the requirements would be in that position. Surely though, it's a VERY, VERY small amount of women who get pregnant via rape. It's hard enough to get pregnant when you are trying to, or having passionate sex, let alone in a circumstance of rape. The timing alone.
I'm sorry, with so much personal information you think you have about me we must have met somewhere... oh wait.... we've never met.. and you don't know anything whether or not I go around with graphic pictures or scream murderer at everyone. Thanks though for trying.
Firstly, the last two were examples of the anti-choice movement in general. I could care less, to be quite frank, whether you do those things or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamaecho
I disagree with abortion because I've been there. i didn't have an abortion, thank God.. but I've been put in the place of many of the women who have.. and I just can't justify it. Hardly anything justifies ending the life of a potential human or human..
We have never had an abortion, nor have we even suggested it to each other. I have, successfully in most cases, counseled couples and single women away from abortions.
And you shoudl thank your god you had the chocie whether to abort or not.
BYW, I noticed you completely blew off what I said about targeted education and pre-1973 numbers as well.
Danger to the mother? Well it depends. Are we talking "Mental health"? No. If we are talking certain death of the mother? Then I think the doctors have an obligation to save the one who is most likely to live.. not something I want to decide, that's for sure.
Incest? No, because if was consensual then it's the people involved issue to deal with.. If it's not then it falls under rape.
Rape.. I have a hard time with. Personally I don't know how someone can allow a baby to be put in the position of having to be aborted with the advent of Plan B.. but while I don't think it's right, I can't condemn (well I wouldn't condemn anyone for having an abortion, I don't think it's right at all but I know that it's a hard choice and wound that never heals) someone for doing it. I think it's still ending the life of a baby though. I'm not sure if they made abortion illegal what the requirements would be in that position. Surely though, it's a VERY, VERY small amount of women who get pregnant via rape. It's hard enough to get pregnant when you are trying to, or having passionate sex, let alone in a circumstance of rape. The timing alone.
Welcome to the "pro-abortion" crowd, as you are fond of calling the pro-choicers.
Contraceptives are measured by the percentage of possibility of preventing pregnancy.
None are lsited as 100%, each and every type has the potential to fail.
How about not having sex? I mean, that's a pretty full proof plan. There's plenty of other sexual things one can do besides intercourse.. then on top of that, there are even MORE ways of making sure you don't get pregnant. Heck a condom, birth control, NFP combo should just about do it.
But please don't give me that most women are using birth control that end up pregnant. Been there, done that, don't believe it. I think it happens, sure, but it's not the majority of cases.
Firstly, the last two were examples of the anti-choice movement in general. I could care less, to be quite frank, whether you do those things or not.
We have never had an abortion, nor have we even suggested it to each other. I have, successfully in most cases, counseled couples and single women away from abortions.
And you shoudl thank your god you had the chocie whether to abort or not.
BYW, I noticed you completely blew off what I said about targeted education and pre-1973 numbers as well.
Why would you counsel them away if abortions are fine and dandy to have?
And no, I don't think God I had the choice. Frankly, I don't think it's a choice women should have to make.
How about not having sex? I mean, that's a pretty full proof plan. There's plenty of other sexual things one can do besides intercourse.. then on top of that, there are even MORE ways of making sure you don't get pregnant. Heck a condom, birth control, NFP combo should just about do it.
But please don't give me that most women are using birth control that end up pregnant. Been there, done that, don't believe it. I think it happens, sure, but it's not the majority of cases.
See, here is where education comes into this discussion.
Firstly, human beings are a sexual animal, we require intimacies, especially in committed relationships. Marriages break up in a celebate atmosphere.
Secondly, 61% of women who have abortions already have children.
Thirdly, I never claimed that "most women who have abortions had failed contraceptives". However, note that NONE are 100% effective...
99% - Copper T IUD & Mirena intrauterine system (IUS), however, note the side effects, including osteoporosis and severe complications (including life time sterility) if used in a younger woman.
92%-99% - Oral pills, mini-pill, patches, "the ring".
Condoms - Male 85-98% - Female 79-99%
Spermicides - 71% - 82%
Diaphram 81-94%
Even sterilization methods, other than the complete removal of testies or overies, has been known to fail.
You condone abortions, there is no "degree of guilt".
I suggest you ease away from the politisized rhetoric like "pro-abortion", as politicizing ANY concern diminishes that important issue and using slogans identifies you with the radicals of that movement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamaecho
Why would you counsel them away if abortions are fine and dandy to have?
And no, I don't think God I had the choice. Frankly, I don't think it's a choice women should have to make.
Abortions are a personal matter. They are matter between the woman and her god (if any), her doctor, her spouse (if she chooses), and/or herself alone.
It is not a matter for government to determine.
Choice is also key as it brings the issue into the limelight where targeted education can effect the numbers of abortions posively (as in lowering those nubmers to pre-1973 numbers).
ANY concern driven underground looses that option, as history plainly shows. AIDs in the US, for example, wouldn't see anywhere near the number of victims had the GLBT community not still been driven undergound in the 1960's
Targeted Education has helped lower the abortion numbers from it's height of app 1,577,200 in 1984 to some 1.2 million last year. And guess what, abstinence only programs and appeals to emotion had nothing to do with it.
Women have a choice. Women can opt not to have abortions. No one is forcing women to have abortions. However, removal of choice IS forcing all women who do not wish to have a child, or more chldren, ( andwho also do not persue illegal venues) to bear children against their will.
I can't think of anyone more qualified to make that decision. I don't care 'bout your *almost* story. In fact, I don't believe it for one bit.
Huh?
You don't believe my almost story.. oh that's nice? lol I don't know what I can do to "prove it" to you.. since it's the internet and all but I can tell you it's very true. I was slated to go to university, my fiance (now husband) and I found out I was pregnant shortly after I graduated high school. We had firmly decided to have an abortion, we told my mom. I started having very bad pains in my ovary area and I went to a Catholic hospital. I told them my intent was to have an abortion and that they could do whatever they wanted to get the pain to go away. I was informed I had a cyst on my ovary that was leaking which was causing the pain. While they did the ultrasound to see that, I looked at it and told my fiance that I couldn't have an abortion.
Later on in the pregnancy we found out I had a very heightened risk for Trisomy 18... again kind of facing the "what ifs" and had decided that we would not have an abortion if that were the case.. thankfully the test was incorrect and we now have a brilliant four year old. Subsequently having another child who is two also.
Believe it or not, whatever.
Why I would make that up for a message board I'm not so sure.
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