Is there a single reason pot should not be legalized? (compare, rating)

[Rathagos]

Originally Posted by leftydan6

No, this argument is from the DEA, who use BS propaganda and ignore all scientific studies.

Okay... that is the dumbest statement made so far. Are you really that ignorant? Too much pot??? It was my argument from my own research. Unlike you, I don't need people to tell me what to think.. I can research my own. Sheesh. Now that we got that clear, maybe we can talk facts instead of desire???

Originally Posted by leftydan6

First of all, the number of DUIs from Marijuana wont increase because people already smoke and drive. Drinking and driving is NOT legal, and yet there are that many deaths. Marijuana does NOT have the same effects on driving that Alcohol, Text Messaging or even talking to a passenger have, so forget that BS propaganda.

Do you have any argument beyond saying "propoganda?" Anything at all? That's like my kids when they were five saying "nuh uh" or "uh huh". It's a simple question... yes or no.... does marijuana impair the function of the brain in any capacity?!?! Of course the answer is yes. Now... does it impair it enough to make driving dangerous? The answer is: it depends on the individual, the potency of the marijuana, and the amount inhaled. So, the stronger potential is "yes." Of over 300,000,000 Americans, will any of them abuse the intake of marijuana? Based on all drugs (including alcohol) the answer is "yes." So, a conservative number of an increase of only 33%-50% is acceptable in this unscientific statistical evaluation. Where are you having problem with that?

Originally Posted by leftydan6

The "one marijuana joint" theory believes that one joint is made up of a very large quantity of marijuana and also does not take into account that someone who smokes marijuana wont smoke nearly as much as someone who is a cigarette smoker. A cigarette smoker will smoke one an hour for 16 hours in most cases, that's equivalent to 3-4 joints. Nobody who smokes 3-4 joints a day is someone who cares about their health or much else. That's a lot of smoking to do.

I see comprehension is the problem here. The statistical answer provided was in response to "is there health associated with smoking pot relative to alcohol and tobacco. The answer is obviously, "yes." What are you debating here!?!? It's fact... not conjecture.

Originally Posted by leftydan6

And even if it does harm ones health, so what? We allow people to get fat, lazy and stressed out, all three are things far more deadly than smoking some joints.

Again... you are not making any point.. you're babbling and reaching for something here. That's about as stupid an argument as "why make the bed, it's only going to get messed up again later?" or "why shower, you'll just get dirty again later!" Works for 10 year olds. Not for adults. Welcome to the real world.

Originally Posted by leftydan6

Keeping it illegal is one of the dumbest domestic policies this country has ever had. Marijuana is one of the top 5 cash crops in the US, being more significant to the economy than Apples, Oranges, Grapes, Tomatoes, Avocados, potatoes, and many other crops we consider to be important to our economy. In this time of economic crisis, it would take a complete idiot to think that we should eliminate one of our most lucrative crops from the economy, but that's exactly what we're doing with marijuana. Even if you are against people smoking pot (and even if it's for the moronic "Reefer Madness" reasons like 'it'll make you stupid', 'crazy' or 'a dangerous driver') keeping it illegal actually hurts you more than it helps.

You value money over people's lives. That's your take, and that's fine. I think people are more important than money. And I'm not talking about morons who take drugs, I'm talking about the innocent people that get killed because an idiot wants to drink, or smoke pot, or snort coke, or whatever. But lame rantings like the one above, without any basis on fact or reason/regard to human life is incomprehensible. You obviously are concerned with the almighty dollar as all-consuming in every decision you make. Talk to me if you lose a loved one to someone who's been drinking or taking drugs. Especially a child. I don't have to lose anyone to know how dumb it is. I also don't have to be shot to know bullets hurt.

The OP's question was give a reason why it should remain illegal. I've given a couple:

1) There are health issues (and I've cited it)
2) There are innocent people that will die (and I've provided statistics)

Instead of getting indignant, respect the answers given in response to the OP. If he/she didn't want reasons, why start the thread?

[Back to NE]

Originally Posted by Rathagos

Okay... that is the dumbest statement made so far. Are you really that ignorant? Too much pot??? It was my argument from my own research. Unlike you, I don't need people to tell me what to think.. I can research my own. Sheesh. Now that we got that clear, maybe we can talk facts instead of desire???



Do you have any argument beyond saying "propoganda?" Anything at all? That's like my kids when they were five saying "nuh uh" or "uh huh". It's a simple question... yes or no.... does marijuana impair the function of the brain in any capacity?!?! Of course the answer is yes. Now... does it impair it enough to make driving dangerous? The answer is: it depends on the individual, the potency of the marijuana, and the amount inhaled. So, the stronger potential is "yes." Of over 300,000,000 Americans, will any of them abuse the intake of marijuana? Based on all drugs (including alcohol) the answer is "yes." So, a conservative number of an increase of only 33%-50% is acceptable in this unscientific statistical evaluation. Where are you having problem with that?



I see comprehension is the problem here. The statistical answer provided was in response to "is there health associated with smoking pot relative to alcohol and tobacco. The answer is obviously, "yes." What are you debating here!?!? It's fact... not conjecture.



Again... you are not making any point.. you're babbling and reaching for something here. That's about as stupid an argument as "why make the bed, it's only going to get messed up again later?" or "why shower, you'll just get dirty again later!" Works for 10 year olds. Not for adults. Welcome to the real world.



You value money over people's lives. That's your take, and that's fine. I think people are more important than money. And I'm not talking about morons who take drugs, I'm talking about the innocent people that get killed because an idiot wants to drink, or smoke pot, or snort coke, or whatever. But lame rantings like the one above, without any basis on fact or reason/regard to human life is incomprehensible. You obviously are concerned with the almighty dollar as all-consuming in every decision you make. Talk to me if you lose a loved one to someone who's been drinking or taking drugs. Especially a child. I don't have to lose anyone to know how dumb it is. I also don't have to be shot to know bullets hurt.

The OP's question was give a reason why it should remain illegal. I've given a couple:

1) There are health issues (and I've cited it)
2) There are innocent people that will die (and I've provided statistics)

Instead of getting indignant, respect the answers given in response to the OP. If he/she didn't want reasons, why start the thread?

Rathagos, this is a positively Palinesque post. Loudly talking about some self-arrived-at conclusions presented in a spun way for the benefit of a low-level audience. There is a myriad of data (study after study) that clearly shows pot is not at all unhealthy relative to alcohol and tobacco. It is you who refuses to accept that fact making the rest of your posts in this thread complete bull****.

I would like you to find me one person in an ICU on a breathing machine from chronic pot smoking... you won't, but you can find tens of thousands of tobacco smokers wishing they were dead on those machines.

Then your weak and easy argument of added killer pot drivers to cloud the real danger of drunk or straight drivers killed to the tune of 50,000 a year.

Let me try Rathagos logic and research on a different topic: gummy bears.
Should gummy bears remain legal?

No,

1) There are health issues [eating enough of those sugary, chemical nasties can lead to diabetes, obesity, gum disease, and a myriad of health concerns... this cannot be disputed]
2) There are innocent people that will die [see #1, those things can lead to shortened life spans]

[Pug Life]

Originally Posted by Rathagos

Okay... that is the dumbest statement made so far. Are you really that ignorant? Too much pot??? It was my argument from my own research. Unlike you, I don't need people to tell me what to think.. I can research my own. Sheesh. Now that we got that clear, maybe we can talk facts instead of desire???

Only a true idiot would actually say something like this. "My own research"? What kind of research have you done? Can I see your findings and the study conducted? Your research is only from the "just say no" ads and other propaganda (yes, the US government does put out propaganda) in addition to some warped and exaggerated view based on one or two experiences. The simple fact is, it's just stupid to eliminate one sector of the economy when the positives (jobs, taxes, elimination of many drug gangs, the end of border pot smuggling) far outweigh the negatives (minor lung damage if smoked but not vaporized or eaten).

[Randomstudent]

Originally Posted by Rathagos

This isn't entirely true. The below information is based on chronic users and laboratory studies included in the upper-level book used by the class of the same name:

"A marijuana joint (when compared with a tobacco cigarette) typically contains about the same levels of tars, 50 percent more hydrocarbons, and an uknown amount of contaminants."

"As a result, symptoms of asthma and other breathing difficulties are increased.

"All things considered, on a statistical basis, you can think of one joint as being equivalent to five cigarettes in terms of carbon monoxide intake and four cigarettes in terms of tar intake."

Source: Drugs, Society, and Criminal Justice (2nd Ed.), Chapter 7, Charles F. Levinthal



20,000-30,000 people die to alcohol-related impaired traffic accidents. Legalizing marijuana could, potentially, double those numbers. If you realize how many people smoke now and could increase their intake based on legalization. In addition, there are those that don't smoke marijuana now solely because it's illegal. There will be an unknown number that start smoking it again (or start for the first time) because it's now legal.

The statements aren't saying everyone who smokes pot is irresponsible. Just like everyone who drinks isn't irresponsible. But, based on the fact that they are both drugs, if both are legal, the numbers should be statistically comparable. That means that we can effectively increase the impaired accident-death numbers to even a conservative number of 40,000-50,000 deaths per year.

You go right on quoting how much money will be saved... right up until a loved one you know dies on the roads. Me... I think lives are more important than the money saved.

First when compairing health risks of cigarettes to joint one must consider volume. According to the West Virgina Health Statics Center the average smoker in that state consumed 1.5 packs a day or 30 cigarettes a day between 1998-1999. In a similar period from 1994-5 the average weed smoker estimatedly consumed on average 16-18 Joints in one MONTH, according to Office of National Drug Control Policy. You do the math even at a rate of 5-1 and a 300% assumed increase in useage upon legalization, cigarettes are far more harmful in those volumes than joints.

Second, smoking is only one method of Marijuana consumption. Injesting and vaporizing are common methods for consuming cannibis and lack many of the health risks associated with smoking.

Third where are you pulling the 40,000-50,000 number of accidents from and why are you assuming they would be statistically similar. That is a dubious claim without evidence. Are you assuming marijuana and alcohol consumption levels will be the same and that the two drugs will have the same accident related death rates...that is quite a strech to go on without academic studies.

EDIT

Fortunatly for us reason is winning over scare tactics and made up stuff as 9 out of the 10 marijuana related ballot initiatives went in MPP favor this year.

[*Danielle*]

Smoking pot impairs congnitive function of the brain. Why should people be alloud to operate heavy machinery when they can not think/react right? They have problems with memory and learning, distorted perception (sights, sounds, time, touch), trouble with thinking and problem solving, loss of motor coordination, increased heart rate, and anxiety. People who smoke M show the same lack of coordination on standard drunk driver tests as do people who have had too much to drink.

Back in the day, when I would smoke (and it was not often at all) I was a complete mess...and a danger to others if I would have driven anywhere.

Marijuana smoke contains some of the same cancer-causing compounds as tobacco, sometimes in higher concentrations. Someone who smokes 1 to 3 joints can produce the same lung damage and potential cancer risk as smoking five times as many cigarettes. <---That is out of my Respiratory Therapy book.

[Randomstudent]

Originally Posted by *Danielle*

Smoking pot impairs congnitive function of the brain. Why should people be alloud to operate heavy machinery when they can not think/react right? They have problems with memory and learning, distorted perception (sights, sounds, time, touch), trouble with thinking and problem solving, loss of motor coordination, increased heart rate, and anxiety. People who smoke M show the same lack of coordination on standard drunk driver tests as do people who have had too much to drink.

Back in the day, when I would smoke (and it was not often at all) I was a complete mess...and a danger to others if I would have driven anywhere.

Marijuana smoke contains some of the same cancer-causing compounds as tobacco, sometimes in higher concentrations. Someone who smokes 1 to 3 joints can produce the same lung damage and potential cancer risk as smoking five times as many cigarettes. <---That is out of my Respiratory Therapy book.

I feel the need to repeat myself because I have already addressed this.

Originally Posted by Randomstudent

First when compairing health risks of cigarettes to joint one must consider volume. According to the West Virgina Health Statics Center the average smoker in that state consumed 1.5 packs a day or 30 cigarettes a day between 1998-1999. In a similar period from 1994-5 the average weed smoker estimatedly consumed on average 16-18 Joints in one MONTH, according to Office of National Drug Control Policy. You do the math even at a rate of 5-1 and a 300% assumed increase in useage upon legalization, cigarettes are far more harmful in those volumes than joints.

Second, smoking is only one method of Marijuana consumption. Injesting and vaporizing are common methods for consuming cannibis and lack many of the health risks associated with smoking...

If these statistics from health and drug organizations are correct. It would take an 1000% yes I do mean 1000% increase in weed consumption in America for the average weed smoker to have the same lung damage as the average cigarette smoker even with the 5-1 carcenagen ratio and assuming smoking is the only method of use. (Which it is not).

Edit
That is also why one would also have the same DWI laws with Marijuana as with alcohol, not to mention licensing and age limit regulations.

[cleatis]

Originally Posted by Rathagos

This isn't entirely true. The below information is based on chronic users and laboratory studies included in the upper-level book used by the class of the same name:

"A marijuana joint (when compared with a tobacco cigarette) typically contains about the same levels of tars, 50 percent more hydrocarbons, and an uknown amount of contaminants."

"As a result, symptoms of asthma and other breathing difficulties are increased.

"All things considered, on a statistical basis, you can think of one joint as being equivalent to five cigarettes in terms of carbon monoxide intake and four cigarettes in terms of tar intake."

Source: Drugs, Society, and Criminal Justice (2nd Ed.), Chapter 7, Charles F. Levinthal



20,000-30,000 people die to alcohol-related impaired traffic accidents. Legalizing marijuana could, potentially, double those numbers. If you realize how many people smoke now and could increase their intake based on legalization. In addition, there are those that don't smoke marijuana now solely because it's illegal. There will be an unknown number that start smoking it again (or start for the first time) because it's now legal.

The statements aren't saying everyone who smokes pot is irresponsible. Just like everyone who drinks isn't irresponsible. But, based on the fact that they are both drugs, if both are legal, the numbers should be statistically comparable. That means that we can effectively increase the impaired accident-death numbers to even a conservative number of 40,000-50,000 deaths per year.

You go right on quoting how much money will be saved... right up until a loved one you know dies on the roads. Me... I think lives are more important than the money saved.

I guess I would have a couple things to say about this. While marijuana smoke may contain more bad stuff, the frequency of use will make the difference. If I remember right the average smoker puts down about a pack a day as where a marijuana user may go for long periods of time (from a few days to a year or more) without using it again. So yes, for the potheads that smoke it all day every day, it will be worse, but then again, those people already do smoke pot. I don't know the chances of more people using it in this amount if it were legalized.

The other thing I would mention is that there are a LOT of potheads out there already. the people who really want to use the stuff are already out there in mass using it. So the only thing I think that is weak about this argument is that you are assuming that numbers of users would skyrocket. It is a pretty fair assumption to say that there would be more users, but the amount of them would be pretty hard to figure with any accuracy because it is hard to get any figures on the amount of present users (how do you gather data on something that people don't want to incriminate themselves by speaking about?).

As far as deaths go, there are a pretty fair amount of people the die or are otherwise affected by illegal trade. (Also do you happen to have any figuires as to how many people die each year from marijuana use?) It is a black market product with equally black market justice. How many witnesses of pot exchanges have turned up missing or been forced to move because of threats or something like that. The nature of present marijuana trade brings unnecessary violence and crime along with it. THAT is where I take issue as it seems that as an indirect result of marijuana prohibition MORE crime is created and seeded than is stopped by making it illegal.

It brings to light the nature of laws. For laws to br productive they need to do more good than bad. And as it sits now I think the law has yet to break even.

[stanman13]

As cleatis said, if someone wants marijuana, it is not hard to get. Most teens will tell you it is easier for them to get pot than alcohol. The fact is, use rates would not skyrocket. There are already laws in place dealing with driving while impaired. Those laws would apply to mj as they do to alcohol. The statement that related deaths would increase by 40-50,000 is statistically unsupportable. Most of those people are already doing it. Numbers would change insignificantly.

We could easily have learned in the 1920's that prohibition does not work, it only drives the market underground and makes it more difficult to regulate.

The argument that mj is bad for you, therefore should be illegal, is weak. How many things do you want to make illegal because they are bad for you?

Overall, I think legalization would save lives, because you eliminate the black-market thugs who now control the market. Instantly out of business.

[*Danielle*]

People who smoke marijuana often have the same respiratory problems as cigarette smokers. These individuals may have daily cough and phlegm, symptoms of chronic bronchitis, and more frequent chest colds. They are also at greater risk of getting lung infections like pneumonia. Marijuana contains some of the same, and sometimes even more, of the cancer-causing chemicals found in cigarette smoke.
Marijuana Information from Drugs.com

Like tobacco, marijuana contains many chemicals that can hurt the lungs and cause cancer. One marijuana cigarette can cause more damage to the lungs than many tobacco cigarettes because marijuana has more tar in it and is usually smoked without filters.
Marijuana's Adverse Effects -- familydoctor.org



Typical Marijuana Side Effects:

• Enhanced cancer risk
• Decrease in testosterone levels and lower sperm counts for men
• Increase in testosterone levels for women and increased risk of infertility
• Diminished or extinguished sexual pleasure
• Psychological dependence requiring more of the drug to get the same effect
• Sleepiness
• Difficulty keeping track of time, impaired or reduced short-term memory
• Reduced ability to perform tasks requiring concentration and coordination,
  such as driving a car
• Increased heart rate
• Potential cardiac dangers for those with preexisting heart disease
• Bloodshot eyes
• Dry mouth and throat
• Decreased social inhibitions
• Paranoia, hallucinations
• Impaired or reduced short-term memory
• Impaired or reduced comprehension
• Altered motivation and cognition, making the acquisition of new information difficult
• Paranoia
• Psychological dependence
• Impairments in learning and memory, perception, and judgment - difficulty
  speaking, listening effectively, thinking, retaining knowledge, problem solving,
  and forming concepts
• Intense anxiety or panic attacks

WikiAnswers - What are the bad side effects of marijuana



It sounds real safe. Please, lets put a bunch more of pot smokers on our streets so myself and my kids are *that* much safer. Sounds like a fantastic idea.

[*Danielle*]

Originally Posted by stanman13

As cleatis said, if someone wants marijuana, it is not hard to get. Most teens will tell you it is easier for them to get pot than alcohol. The fact is, use rates would not skyrocket. There are already laws in place dealing with driving while impaired. Those laws would apply to mj as they do to alcohol. The statement that related deaths would increase by 40-50,000 is statistically unsupportable. Most of those people are already doing it. Numbers would change insignificantly.

We could easily have learned in the 1920's that prohibition does not work, it only drives the market underground and makes it more difficult to regulate.

The argument that mj is bad for you, therefore should be illegal, is weak. How many things do you want to make illegal because they are bad for you?

Overall, I think legalization would save lives, because you eliminate the black-market thugs who now control the market. Instantly out of business.

I just don't get this mind set. This drug alters your ability to drive a car. Therefore your going to be putting more people in danger. More impaired people driving on the roads = more people getting hurt.