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You can't dispute the research so you lazily dismiss the link.
Carry on.
Just as you might dismiss the Limbaugh Letter for potentially being biased and/or inaccurate, I to have so called sources that I will not even waste my time with. Wiki might be the all time worse source with the ability for anyone with an agenda to write, edit, etc. on a subject they know little to nothing about. What is worse is how those who run Wiki are biased to the point of allowing shenangins to go on with the site few know about.
Read Sharyl Attkisson's book "Stonewalled" for more on this if you wish to educate yourself on how Wiki is the tool of the lazy & ignorant. That is not to even mention how it is run from the top.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennies4Penny
I would not give a flying crap if one of my kids is gay. And I don't know anyone who else would care either and I'm surrounded by conservatives. I personally know gay couples that have children and families. Some biological through fertility treatments and some adopted. If grandparents can accept grandchildren adopted by their straight children, then they can accept them if adopted by their gay children. The only people that shun such behavior are the RWNJ Tea Baggers. And they justify their hatred through the Bible, God and Jesus non of which supports the hatred, persecution, banishment or mistreatment of homosexuals.
And everyone who is gay was born that way. No if's, and's or but's about that.
See, it is always easy to sound "tolerant and open-minded" is the hypothetical. However I doubt anyone, given a choice, would want their child to turn out to be homosexual.
As to you trying to rationalize what I gave a legitimate reasons why someone might oppose homosexual offspring without being diminished to name calling, you come up with something not commonly used, to presumably only cover the DNA aspect.
This of course wont account for the environment they would be raised in, therefore affecting what type of person they would become.
More importantly you wish to dismiss how a grandparent would feel, and say if they would accept adopted grandkids, they will accept homosexual children. Again that maybe the way you and some others feel, but a large majority of parents would never hope for their kids to be infertile or homosexual.
As to you implication that all homosexuals are born that way, you of course would be wrong. There are homosexuals who admit becoming that way, even though a majority admit they were always like that. To say otherwise would be ignoring actual facts based on the liberal mantra of it being beyond their control.
Heck I've known very few homosexuals in my life, and one of them said they became that way due to a violent rape that happened to them when she was straight. After that she could not be intimate with a man due to her fear, and eventually became homosexual as her only sexual outlet. I of course pointed out that she had a choice to become celibate (as nuns do for instance), but she explained the process and her eventual seduction by a friend who was homosexual.
Regardless, not every single homosexual was born that way. "No if's, and's or but's about that."
If a person doesn't care for it, then don't do it. No one is forcing you to sleep with a person of a different race. Most people tend to stick within their own race. But please save your pity and condemnation over something that's totally normal.
Stating facts is not condemnation nor pity. If anything, people who oppose interracial marriage are condemned by the PC police for objecting to it. I merely point out that calling them racist, bigot, or any other typical attempt to demonetize them is wrong as they may very well have legitimate reasons for opposing it.
I didn't think I needed to go into detail, but if your child marries outside their race/culture/religion it might very well alter the relationship the parents have with their kids and future grandkids. you and some others might say they would be enriched by it, which is fine for you to think that way. Yet do not arrogantly assume the way you feel is correct, and anyone who feels the opposite is to be shouted down or derided. Maybe white parents would not like that their kid was brainwashed into believing in Black Liberation Philosophy" which only happened because they married a black person. Maybe a Jewish family does not like the fact that their child converts to Christianity and that their grandkids will be raised Christians instead of Jews.
Both of those examples (and there are more) show how their future generation/s, and their own lives will be changed in a way that they may object to if their kid marries outside their own race/religion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d
Plain and simple, you are trying to wrap bigotry in a pretty package and sell it as a respectable, even rational, argument. It's not.
"Likely born homosexual"? Really? I think that says it all about where you're coming from.
I see, so suggesting that supposedly open-minded and/or tolerant people should not try to diminish/demonetize those who think differently than they do, is wrong in your book?
I am merely pointing out that despite what the liberal PC playbook suggests be said on these controversial subjects, that reasoned people can have legitimate reasons for opposing that way of thinking.
Instead of trying to engage in a rational, non emotional discussion, you wish to just chalk them up to a name. If anyone is trying to create a "package and sell it", it is those who try to shout others down because they think differently, without even understanding what their reasons might be.
As to my comment you quoted, it is completely accurate. For starters it accounts for the fact the most homosexuals say they were born that way, which is likely your belief. However it also accounts for those who say they were not born homosexual, but instead became homosexual. Those people exist whether you wish to acknowledge it or not.
So instead of making a snide comment toward me, you should acknowledge you were wrong and that my statement was 100% accurate.
See, it is always easy to sound "tolerant and open-minded" is the hypothetical. However I doubt anyone, given a choice, would want their child to turn out to be homosexual.
And nobody wants their children to end up poor, either? Should we hate the poor? Should we treat them even worse than we already do in this nation? Should they also be forbidden from marrying? Same idea with physical handicaps, mental issues, etc.
Sorry, but "I wouldn't want to be that way and I wouldn't want my kids to be that way" is NOT a valid reason to hate or discriminate against a group of people.
Lol... and then a few posts later, you're claiming that people have a "legitimate reason" to be opposed to things like inter-racial marriage... yeah, gotta keep the "white race pure" - and we all know inbreeding and reducing genetic diversity is great for a species?!
Anyone who uses the world "liberal" in a negative way and then goes on to try to explain the "legitimate reasons" to hate marriages between people of other faiths, genders, races, and so on has ZERO credibility left.
The worst part about the ignorant bigots is how they can't even be honest about their bigotry. No, no - there's always an excuse, and it is always those evil "PC liberals" that are getting in the way of their righteous hatred. Right - sorry, but we all see through that pitiful farce.
And nobody wants their children to end up poor, either? Should we hate the poor? Should we treat them even worse than we already do in this nation? Should they also be forbidden from marrying?
Sorry, but "I wouldn't want to be that way and I wouldn't want my kids to be that way" is NOT a valid reason to hate or discriminate against a group of people.
Lol... and then a few posts later, you're claiming that people have a "legitimate reason" to be opposed to things like inter-racial marriage... yeah, gotta keep the "white race pure"
Well you either ignored my points or didn't read them. I gave several examples of why parents would legitimately not want their child to be a homosexual, and also not to marry outside the faith or race. Your reply to that is to rant and try and use a comparative analogy of being poor. Really, is that the extent of your intellect?
Being poor can be overcome, yet some people who are poor can lead happy and rich lives. If they are born homosexual, that is not likely to change. As I said no parent starts out hoping their child will be homosexual, period.
As to marriage outside of the race or religion, I already gave examples which you apparently wish to ignore.
Instead you try to put words in my mouth about keeping a race pure. I will also note how you used white race, as if blacks do not wish to keep their race/culture pure. I guess if you are minority, then it is ok to have those thoughts/feelings, right?
Why not try arguing against the examples I gave rather than try to put a PC label on people with name calling, all to try and diminish them because they do not follow your playbook?
BTW - I would also note that you asked if a parent should forbid a child from marrying someone poor. The truth of the matter is that most parents hope their kids marry someone who can provide a better life for them whether that be financial or otherwise. So while I do not think most people would forbid it, they do not hope their kid wants to marry someone who is poor and will result in an economic struggle. Ask yourself the same question, do parents wish their kid grows up to marry someone poor? Are they bigots or whatever other name you wish to ascribe to them for wanting the best for their kids and future generations.
If that involves wanting biological grandkids or staying close to their current culture/religion, who are you to judge their parenting desires?
Well you either ignored my points or didn't read them. I gave several examples of why parents would legitimately not want their child to be a homosexual, and also not to marry outside the faith or race. Your reply to that is to rant and try and use a comparative analogy of being poor. Really, is that the extent of your intellect?
Being poor can be overcome, yet some people who are poor can lead happy and rich lives. If they are born homosexual, that is not likely to change. As I said no parent starts out hoping their child will be homosexual, period.
Oh, please - quit trying to justify "we should hate gays and prevent gay marriage" with "I don't want my kids to be gay since then I won't have grandkids." And the same applies to the rest of your laughable justifications.
Yeah, nobody wants their kids to be gay, poor, change religions, be handicapped, or whatever. Nobody disagreed with that statement - but there's also no way to get from that truth to the absurdity of "we need to discriminate against those people and limit their freedoms" without a mountain of ignorance and hatred, which is what this thread is about.
Your argument is fundamentally flawed - no amount of hatred and reduction in freedoms of the people you don't like - I mean, "the people nobody would want their kids to end up being" - is going to change them or improve their lives. So, why hate them? Why limit them? Based on your other posts, you also seem to think "people turn gay," which is even more laughable. Is this more of the "if we allow gay marriage here, we might all catch the gay?!" reasoning? Ugh...
You've got nothing - your reasoning is fundamentally flawed, and quite frankly disgusting - let's all discriminate against the people we don't want our kids to end up being. Yeah, because that'll magically make them: straight, rich, of the same faith as me... sure... Gee, I don't get it - I keep hating them, and they want nothing to do with me, how strange... Can't figure it out, can you?
Oh, please - quit trying to justify "we should hate gays and prevent gay marriage" with "I don't want my kids to be gay since then I won't have grandkids." And the same applies to the rest of your laughable justifications.
Yeah, nobody wants their kids to be gay, poor, change religions, be handicapped, or whatever. Nobody disagreed with that statement - but there's also no way to get from that truth to the absurdity of "we need to discriminate against those people and limit their freedoms" without a mountain of ignorance and hatred, which is what this thread is about.
Your argument is fundamentally flawed - no amount of hatred and reduction in freedoms of the people you don't like - I mean, "the people nobody would want their kids to end up being" - is going to change them or improve their lives. So, why hate them? Why limit them? Based on your other posts, you also seem to think "people turn gay," which is even more laughable. Is this more of the "if we allow gay marriage here, we might all catch the gay?!" reasoning? Ugh...
You've got nothing - your reasoning is fundamentally flawed, and quite frankly disgusting - let's all discriminate against the people we don't want our kids to end up being. Yeah, because that'll magically make them: straight, rich, of the same faith as me... sure... Gee, I don't get it - I keep hating them, and they want nothing to do with me, how strange... Can't figure it out, can you?
I see, so none of my points have any validity in your view, correct?
Then I guess you can show everyone where no homosexuals have stated they were not born that way, and instead became that way.
[everyone with any knowledge on the subject knows I am correct on this point, but provide some type of proof rather than allowing your opinion to try and trump the knowledge that is out there]
I of course never said someone will "catch the gay", those were your words. Frankly I have no idea why 2-3% of people turn out to be homosexual. I believe them when most say they were born that way. I also believe them when some say they became that way. Even if I were a homosexual, I wouldn't know that others with different personal experience wouldn't be correct.
You might wish to deny them the right even to proclaim they became homosexual because it does not fit into your liberal playbook. Yet I have never heard anyone flat out deny people their life story like you seem willing to do.
As I pointed out, I know a woman who became a homosexual, and she explained why. I guess in your book either I am lying, or she lied to me, right?
[BTW - why not give us your insight on bisexuals since presumably in your mind, they were also born that way]
You also make the mistake of saying I am trying to justify the hatred which is "laughable". For starters, I brought up several examples which are valid to some people, and unrefuted by you.
It might not bother you and your ilk, but that hardly makes their point of view laughable. The threads theme is asking why people get upset over these subjects.
Yet posters like you and the one I originally replied to don't seem to really be looking for an answer. Instead you wish to just marginalize them with names and assumptions that hatred is their sole motivation. Why even have a discussion then if you only wish to only judge them, not understand what their motivation is.
Yet if a black family does not want their child to marry a white person, it does not mean they hate white people?
Of course it doesn't, nor the reverse.
The same with the Jewish couple example. They do not hate other faiths, but don't want one of their kids married to one.
You next problem is a classic PC one in that you wish to equate disapproval of something as hatred. You can disapprove of my thinking without hating me, just as I can disapprove of homosexuals pushing their agenda without hating them.
You might very well assume I am playing semantics, but in reality words have meaning. Hatred is one of the powerful and ugly emotions humans have. So many on the left try to pigeonhole those who oppose liberalism as hatred, thereby trying to marginalize opposing points of view.
Think about that before you reply, and see if you can contribute something new.
Skipped to the end just to answer the original question: because it challenges their long held internal beliefs and many aren't good at self evaluation. Things they don't or can't understand frighten them, so it's easier to grip those long held beliefs tighter rather than even consider the possibility that they've been looking at it wrong all along.
I agree. Most of the threads here about homosexuality are started by people that advocate for it. So, it isn't like others care until it is thrown up again and again in their face.
But, for homosexual couples unlike interracial couples, the homosexual are very LOUD and when they get in the faces of others, that 1% on the other side gets very LOUD. Let's face it, we all know the homosexual side is the one that keeps this going in the name of trying to get acceptance for deviance in the society. The "agenda": The homosexual propaganda campaign in America's media
This is really on target. Do as you please just don't flash it in my face, tell me there is nothing wrong with it and try to convert myself and family to believing it is OK. I tolerate but I don't accept. It is trying to force the acceptance of someone else's behavior when it is very unacceptable to me. At the point I am made aware, I will have an opinion and will take action when necessary.
Actually, you have that small percentage of people that are. Those that start "gay" threads like this disguised as something other than that. Actually, when homosexuality was still considered a mental illness, paranoia and self-loathing were two of the major components that got it classified as a mental illness. The other side rightfully feels that they are being threatened that if they don't comply with acceptance, they will be destroyed, their lives taken, businesses shut down, children taught unacceptable ideas in the school system so they feel like they must defend themselves just as much as the avenging side.
I believe OP just threw interracial relationships here to throw others off the tract of "just another gay thread". They are entirely different issues. There were interracial relationships in my high school in 1972. No one felt it was immoral and the interracial couples functioned just like every other couple without special provisions. I do not remember there ever being force used to try to gain anything by interracial couples.
While I have sympathy for those that cannot function normally, I have no intention of accepting their behaviors as normal. This is not about obsession except for a very few of those trying to force the issue and a minority that feels rightfully threatened to give up everything they believe in to appease a tiny 2 to 3% of the population.
Those that support homosexuality and are ready to "accept" rather than just "tolerate" it are not as many as people are trying to make you believe. Look at the cases where people were persecuted for standing up for their rights and you saw that many came forward with moral and financial support.
Do what you but at the point you put it in my face, expect me to support my beliefs. The old "names and faces" won't hurt me yet we do know that many that refuse to comply with the homosexual agenda have had their lives threatened.
No one is "throwing" ANYTHING in your face. You're just not smart enough to stay out of gay peoples business. Your type has been coming after us for years with your laws and your lies. Don't expect us to sit around and take it, because it's not going to happen. The time when the religious right could get away with their lies and misinformation is over. I love your links backing up your nonsense: World Net Daily? C'mon: you can't do any better than a rag that spreads lies that have been proven to be lies?
And by the way: my "Homosexual Agenda" for today included:
1. Getting up for work
2. Taking a shower and brushing my teeth
3. Going to work and working hard.
4. Going home, cooking dinner and going to bed.
If you plan on dishing out your nonsense, get ready for it to come back at you, because you're throwing it in my face.
While I tolerate you, I don't have to accept you. The days of your propaganda is almost over. I know you can see it coming, and I feel sorry for you. An entire life misspent, hating other people that you don't have the brains or empathy to understand.
I'll pray for you. Take good care of yourself.
Last edited by workitoutnow; 06-09-2015 at 06:31 PM..
Lol... Right. The tea party wants a government too small to pave the roads, but large enough to monitor the bedroom. Oh, sure - they may not put their idiocy up on on their "official" website, but I guess we're all supposed to assume it's a coincidence that tea party politicians move in lock-step with regressive policies that oppose individual freedom and which border on fascism - and their followers support every bit of hatred that oozes from their lips while pretending to be "upstanding citizens?" Right... just a coincidence.
Everyone, remember - in tea party land, the government should have the right to tell you what consenting adults can do the bedroom and what religion you worship, but has no right to limit firearms or tax anyone. Because, you know, gay marriage kills soooooo many people each year, while guns don't. Sure.
What a strange post. The Tea Party does not want the government to "monitor the bedroom."
Quote:
At any rate, this sums up why people are obsessed over things that don't matter - they personally don't like it, and they hide their bigotry and ignorance behind "religion," "values," and "morals." Because hating people who are different and who aren't harming anyone else is a perfect example of "values" and "morals," apparently.
There's that "B" word again. Having values and morals does not necessarily equal hate.
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