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Whether Rustbelt. or Grain and Livestock Belt. the Midwest is still twelve flyover states with fertile soil that feeds the world, and one dominate city.
I always said, it is so sad that Chicago was not on the other side of Lake Michigan. Could you imagine such a beautiful city in a beautiful state?
Not having a densely populated coastlines is what makes Michigan appealing. All I can imagine is endless urban development taking up whatever rural area there'd be between Benton Harbor and Grand Rapids.
Not having a densely populated coastlines is what makes Michigan appealing. All I can imagine is endless urban development taking up whatever rural area there'd be between Benton Harbor and Grand Rapids.
Well, who knows. Maybe one day Holland, Grand Haven, Muskegon, and Grand Rapids will join to form a densely populated area. Too bad Muskegon is not larger and Michigan's second largerst city. (I think Grand Rapids in beautiful and love it. I just wish it was on Lake Michigan)
Well, who knows. Maybe one day Holland, Grand Haven, Muskegon, and Grand Rapids will join to form a densely populated area. Too bad Muskegon is not larger and Michigan's second largerst city. (I think Grand Rapids in beautiful and love it. I just wish it was on Lake Michigan)
Why on Earth would we want another urban sprawl on Lake Michigans coast, especially one in West Michigan? I hope those cities NEVER join and form a densely populated scab.
Illinois is fine if you like traffic, corrupt governors, shopping with the yuppies. It is mostly agriculture based once you get out of the northern area. More jobs definitely in Northern IL. Easy to get to WI and annoy them on the weekends. Illinois loves giving out plenty of traffic tickets. I think it is the #1 priority there. The roads, when they are redone, last about 3 years before they turn to total crap again because of all the trucks and snowplows.
Michigan has the blight called Detroit. Northern MI is mostly fishing, hunting, beach, snowmobiling, vacationers from IL and locals. Forget about good paying jobs in the north. Hard winters. More deer in MI. Big bumpers on your vehicle would be good. And the sun glare off Lake Michigan at sunset will blind you and turn your skin to a burned mass of flesh.
There is one big difference between people in Illinois and Michigan. To me, it seems as if people in Chicago don't have that much of a bond with the rest of the state. Chicago is very different culturally and economically from the rest of Illinois. So there doesn't seem to be this Illinois pride in Chicago.
While in Michigan, the opposite is true. People all over the state die for Michigan and adore it. I would argue almost as much a Texans but are not as outwardly visible about it since it would conflict with patriotism to the Union. While there are some people in the UP who would like to form a new state, the vast majority of people in the state have a strong Michigan Identity. The Detroit area is heavily bonded with the State identity. There is also a culture in Michigan of intrastate tourism and a deep notion that each coastal town has its own unique personality.
Last edited by Republic of Michigan; 11-18-2013 at 12:38 AM..
There is one big difference between people in Illinois and Michigan. To me, it seems as if people in Chicago don't have that much of a bond with the rest of the state. Chicago is very different culturally and economically from the rest of Illinois. So there doesn't seem to be this Illinois pride in Chicago.
While in Michigan, the opposite is true. People all over the state die for Michigan and adore it. I would argue almost as much a Texans but are not as outwardly visible about it since it would conflict with patriotism to the Union. While there are some people in the UP who would like to form a new state, the vast majority of people in the state have a strong Michigan Identity. The Detroit area is heavily bonded with the State identity. There is also a culture in Michigan of intrastate tourism and a deep notion that each coastal town has its own unique personality.
True, the approach is very different in each state. It is very possible in Metro Detroit to find people who identify first as a "Michigan resident" and being a part of Metro Detroit is secondary. In Chicagoland, everything is focused on Chicagoland. Illinois is rarely mentioned at all. And, by the same token, a lot of people in Metro Detroit have done a lot of traveling throughout the state, whether it's for vacations or some other reason, and there is a decent level of familiarity with other parts of the state. With Chicago residents, I get the feeling that they have no grasp of the geography of the rest of the state and couldn't point out many other cities out on a map.
True, the approach is very different in each state. It is very possible in Metro Detroit to find people who identify first as a "Michigan resident" and being a part of Metro Detroit is secondary. In Chicagoland, everything is focused on Chicagoland. Illinois is rarely mentioned at all. And, by the same token, a lot of people in Metro Detroit have done a lot of traveling throughout the state, whether it's for vacations or some other reason, and there is a decent level of familiarity with other parts of the state. With Chicago residents, I get the feeling that they have no grasp of the geography of the rest of the state and couldn't point out many other cities out on a map.
I think it's very complicated. I will point out that there are plenty of Chicago residents that identify as Illinois residents, too, especially people who are either from downstate or are alumni of UIUC. However, differently than Detroit, Chicago is a mecca for people from the entire Midwest region and from countries all over the world, so they are naturally going to display different affinities towards/against Illinois if they are from Iowa, Michigan, Germany, Poland, etc. I think the fierce "state loyalty" is borne more out of residents that live and stay primarily in their home state and isn't reflective of an amalgamated populace like in Chicago. I think NYC/NYS is another perfect example of this phenomenon. Coupled with the unfortunate stigma that still associates itself with the city of Detroit and it's not too surprising that people from Metro Detroit identify themselves as someone from Michigan and not Detroit whereas the reverse is generally the case for Chicago/Illinois.
I think it's very complicated. I will point out that there are plenty of Chicago residents that identify as Illinois residents, too, especially people who are either from downstate or are alumni of UIUC. However, differently than Detroit, Chicago is a mecca for people from the entire Midwest region and from countries all over the world, so they are naturally going to display different affinities towards/against Illinois if they are from Iowa, Michigan, Germany, Poland, etc. I think the fierce "state loyalty" is borne more out of residents that live and stay primarily in their home state and isn't reflective of an amalgamated populace like in Chicago. I think NYC/NYS is another perfect example of this phenomenon. Coupled with the unfortunate stigma that still associates itself with the city of Detroit and it's not too surprising that people from Metro Detroit identify themselves as someone from Michigan and not Detroit whereas the reverse is generally the case for Chicago/Illinois.
I am unsure if the economic situation of the city of Detroit has an effect on Metro Detroiters' Michigan pride and identity. Perhaps a bit, but even during Detroit's heyday, there was just as strong of a Michigan identity as there is today. Michigan feels like a nation and a distinct political subdivision. It is sort of like a mini USA with an East Coast, a West Coast, and a North Coast. I think the geography has more to do with it.
Also, don't be fooled into thinking that the Detroit area does not draw people from across the world. While the last decade was horrible for Michigan's economy and there was a loss of people, the region still attracts immigrants. There is a continuous influx of people from the Middle East, Eastern Europe, and now Latin America. Immigration continues to play a role in the region's projected growth with the population of Detroit-Ann Arbor-Flint (CMSA) estimated to be 6,191,000 by 2025.
Keep in mind, Detroit is disadvanted compared to other cities when counting the metropolitan or combined statistical area. While Chicagoland can count areas going all the way to Michigan City, Detroit cannot count any of its suburbs in Canada. The entire Windsor area which abuts Detroit (you can see it across the river) is not even counted. Next, Toledo is not included despite the fact that it is as close to Detroit as Michigan City is to Chicago. So as a result, we have 3 seperate metropolitan areas all touching one another. I guess that is good in the sense that Detroit's metropolitan area does not include people who may not have a Michigan identity...lol
I am unsure if the economic situation of the city of Detroit has an effect on Metro Detroiters' Michigan pride and identity. Perhaps a bit, but even during Detroit's heyday, there was just as strong of a Michigan identity as there is today. Michigan feels like a nation and a distinct political subdivision. It is sort of like a mini USA with an East Coast, a West Coast, and a North Coast. I think the geography has more to do with it.
Also, don't be fooled into thinking that the Detroit area does not draw people from across the world. While the last decade was horrible for Michigan's economy and there was a loss of people, the region still attracts immigrants. There is a continuous influx of people from the Middle East, Eastern Europe, and now Latin America. Immigration continues to play a role in the region's projected growth with the population of Detroit-Ann Arbor-Flint (CMSA) estimated to be 6,191,000 by 2025.
Keep in mind, Detroit is disadvanted compared to other cities when counting the metropolitan or combined statistical area. While Chicagoland can count areas going all the way to Michigan City, Detroit cannot count any of its suburbs in Canada. The entire Windsor area which abuts Detroit (you can see it across the river) is not even counted. Next, Toledo is not included despite the fact that it is as close to Detroit as Michigan City is to Chicago. So as a result, we have 3 seperate metropolitan areas all touching one another. I guess that is good in the sense that Detroit's metropolitan area does not include people who may not have a Michigan identity...lol
As someone who grew up in a suburb of Toledo, I can assure you, we identify more with Michigan and Detroit than Columbus and Ohio. Well, most of us. Those Buckeye fans can't be helped .
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