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if we werent supposed to eat animals they wouldnt taste so good.
i tried being a vegan for almost 2 years but after a while i just couldnt do it anymore.
i guess man didnt claw his way to the top of the food chain to eat a carrot..
i run very high triglyceride levels and my hdl levels sucked so being a vegan improved them 1000%...
now they jumped back up but i use lipitor as a dry rub on my ribs
Last edited by mathjak107; 05-12-2012 at 11:34 AM..
Not sold in what sense? That they are superior? As for as the cost issue goes superiority isn't required, just equivalence.
I say this with the caveat that I am not a nutritionist nor am I an expert on nutrition and health, I am a math and statistics and economics guy first, not a health one.
In my mind the "average" American meat eaters diet vs an "average" vegetarians diet is not a relevant data point. For one, I am not overweight or obese like 2/3rds of America, and my diet is already pretty balanced, includes plenty of veggies and fruits, with moderate meat consumption. Some days I eat little/no meat at all, and some days I eat plenty of it. My diet includes very little fast food, a fair amount of natural, organic and/or fresh produce products, and as little processed anything as possible. This is in no way related to a "typical" or "average" diet in the US.
In general the "average" vegetarian or even vegan diet is probably likely to be much healthier than the "average" meat eaters diet...think about all the numbers of ridiculous obese/fat/overweight/unhealthy people in the US. They are a very high percentage of meat eaters, therefore, they are going to be unhealthy relative to vegetarians, who are likely to be healthier simply because they are conscious and aware of what they are eating, not necessarily because they are vegetarians.
That is largely why I am not sold on vegetarianism as a health benefit. Most of the comparisons are invalid in my mind. Think about my diet now, which is largely pretty healthy by any reasonable metric...and replace the meat with...processed soy? Instead of buying natural ground beef, without antibiotics or hormones attached, I can buy a boca burger? Is that really healthier. Or instead of fish, I can buy soy? Or some tofu and spices made to sort of taste like fish? And not to mention the enormous pain in the neck it is to vet every meal to make sure there's no fish sauce in it, no misc. other "meat" related crap, it's just annoying, and I quite frankly have better things to do. Not to mention I travel abroad to Asia, EU and other places and have to figure out if they are serving me meat products. No thanks.
Now, I do think it is cheaper to replace some meat with legumes, soy, tofu, etc.? Absolutely. For a lot of people, who already eat a LOT of meat, it is certainly a lot healthier. But for people who already eat pretty healthy, I think mostly they net a cost savings. However, after a certain point I think there's a big convenience issue to go from eating meat "occasionally" to "not at all" though, which nets out the cost savings and then some, and I am not sold on the benefits of going totally veggie vs a balanced healthy diet that includes meat. I don't think there's a significant cost savings unless you are on a super tight budget...10 dollars a week?, and it is in general massively annoying in a lot of different situations in life.
when they come over for dinner my wife will buy a new pan that never touched meat and make them a special vegetarian dinner.
but when we go there im never extended the courtesy of being served my kind of food that i eat like a big juicy steak made in a pan that never touched vegetables...
I find the average American tends to be on one end or the other in terms of diet (or any other topic for that matter) and wonder why moderation is so foreign a concept. The average Asian or Mediterranean Diet consists largely (in descending order...fruits/vegetables, grains/legumes, dairy, fish and seafood, poultry and very little red meat). The Vegan/Vegetarian movement while a better idea versus the typical American Diet, is so far to one end that few can maintain it. It seems recently I've heard of promotions geared toward getting Americans to moderate more, namely the Meatless Monday initiative. If this country can become more geared toward eating less meat versus the futility of efforts of certain beliefs trying to eliminate meat consumption, we could be much further along in reducing obesity/improving health.....as well as the environmental positives that come along with it.
i tried being a vegan for almost 2 years but after a while i just couldnt do it anymore.
Of course you could do it. There are two reasons people typically stop vegetarian/vegan diets, 1.) Its socially difficult since our society is so geared around meat eating. 2.) Though, related to #1, being a vegetarian/vegan requires major lifestyle changes in how you eat to get all the proper nutrients. You can't just cut out meat/dairy in the typical American diet and be healthy, you have to replace the protein, iron, zinc, etc you get from meat or dairy with other things.
So then, if you found you "couldn't do it", its probably because you were shorting changing your body on essential nutrition or couldn't take the social pressure.
I don't know why, but meat-eaters tend to give vegetarians are a hard time. So vegetarians/vegans, not only have to deal with the fact that restaurants, etc are all geared towards meat consumption, but they have to deal with everyone's commentary as well. After awhile...I think it just wears most people down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107
i guess man didnt claw his way to the top of the food chain to eat a carrot..
i run very high triglyceride levels and my hdl levels sucked so being a vegan improved them 1000%...
now they jumped back up but i use lipitor as a dry rub on my ribs
This seems to be the preference in our society, that is to take pills to make up for poor diet. I always wonder if whether everyone switched to more healthy diets, maintained low BMIs, etc...that it would cause a recession! So much less would be spent on food, health care, pills, etc...
why is it all the food in my vegan friends refrigerator mimics non vegetarian food .
vegan hot dogs,tofu meatloaf, imitation everything that resembles meat....
am i missing something here?
Because he hasn't learned how to eat a good vegan diet. Western diet gets a lot of essential nutrients from meat so a successful (and healthy) vegetarian/vegan diet has diverge from the typical Western diet. Often people make the mistake of just eliminating meat from their diet, but that is a huge mistake as you'll become protein deficiency in short-order. Then there is people, like your friend, that replace the meat with direct meat-substitutes. This is better nutritionally since the substitutes are manufactured to be high in protein, iron, etc....but its rather costly and not the way it should be done.
Of course you could do it. There are two reasons people typically stop vegetarian/vegan diets, 1.) Its socially difficult since our society is so geared around meat eating. 2.) Though, related to #1, being a vegetarian/vegan requires major lifestyle changes in how you eat to get all the proper nutrients. You can't just cut out meat/dairy in the typical American diet and be healthy, you have to replace the protein, iron, zinc, etc you get from meat or dairy with other things.
So then, if you found you "couldn't do it", its probably because you were shorting changing your body on essential nutrition or couldn't take the social pressure.
I don't know why, but meat-eaters tend to give vegetarians are a hard time. So vegetarians/vegans, not only have to deal with the fact that restaurants, etc are all geared towards meat consumption, but they have to deal with everyone's commentary as well. After awhile...I think it just wears most people down.
This seems to be the preference in our society, that is to take pills to make up for poor diet. I always wonder if whether everyone switched to more healthy diets, maintained low BMIs, etc...that it would cause a recession! So much less would be spent on food, health care, pills, etc...
went back to vegan the last 6 weeks again to see if i could avoid the liptor but not this time.
i did lose 13 lbs which dropped my pressure from 165/110 to 138/84 and avoid medication but age and genetics just beat diet on the hdl and tri's.
In general the "average" vegetarian or even vegan diet is probably likely to be much healthier than the "average" meat eaters diet...think about all the
There are a lot of studies that take this stuff into consideration, namely they look how "healthy meat-eaters" compare to vegetarians. Predictably, a lot of the advantages (when compared to the general population) go away when you do this but the vegetarians still come out ahead in some areas like heart disease and cancer. The results are, from what I recall, more mixed though.
As for being overweight in general, I find that Americans have a warped perception of weight which is natural when 70% of society is overweight. I'm not implying this is the case with you, but when many people say they "aren't overweight" you have to take it with a grain of salt.
Personally, I would be surprised if there was a health benefit to vegetarian diets compared to semi-vegetarian diets. We evolved eating meats, at least in low qualities, so it would be strange if they caused damage to our bodies.
I don't think eating vegetarian is any more annoying than eating healthy. Food in American is so meat based that whether you're eliminating it entirely or just not eating much of it, its pretty much the same.
went back to vegan the last 6 weeks again to see if i could avoid the liptor but not this time.
i did lose 13 lbs which dropped my pressure from 165/110 to 138/84 and avoid medication but age and genetics just beat diet on the hdl and tri's.
6 weeks really isn't enough to expect major changes in your blood levels, this is not to mention that a vegan diet, in itself, doesn't necessarily improve these numbers. It depends how you are eating, and there are plenty of unhealthy vegan foods that will raise your hdl, tri, etc.
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