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Old 01-24-2020, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
5,699 posts, read 4,935,688 times
Reputation: 4943

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
When it comes to Eastern Europe, religion played a critical role in paving the way for future development. Catholic countries like Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary and Croatia received a lot of financial support from the Vatican.
I haven't really thought of it that way, but there does seem to be a correlation, however there is also another correlation that southern countries are almost always poorer than their northern natives, such as Spain, Italy and Greece being poorer than UK, France and Germany.

But just to play around with this, lets compare how post communist countries are doing.

Country | Religion | GDP PPP per capita (IMF) | Population growth/decline since 1990ish

Czechia | Catholic | $37,371 | +2.77%
Slovenia | Catholic | $36,746 | +3.60%
Slovakia | Catholic | $35,130 | +2.87%
Lithuania | Catholic | $34,826 | -24.45%

Estonia | Lutheran | $34,096 | -13.50%
Poland | Catholic | $31,939 | +0.76%
Hungary | Catholic | $31,903 | -5.75%

Latvia | Lutheran | $29,901 | -27.50%

Russia | Orthodox | $29,267 | -0.77%
Kazakhstan | Muslim | $27,550 | +11.08%
Romania | Orthodox | $26,447 | -15.76%
Croatia | Catholic | $26,221 | -14.44%
Bulgaria | Orthodox | $23,156 | -21.78%

Belarus | Orthodox | $20,003 | -7.02%

Turkmenistan | Muslim | $19,527 | N/A
Montenegro | Orthodox | $19,043 | +4.23%
Azerbaijan | Muslim | $18,076 | +42.16%
Serbia | Orthodox | $17,555 | -11.59%
Macedonia | Orthodox | $15,709 | +8.80%

Bosnia | Muslim | $13,491 | -20.44%
Mongolia | Buddhist | $13,447 | +58.44%
Albania | Muslim | $13,345 | -11.96%
Georgia | Orthodox | $11,485 | -23.18%
Armenia | Oriental | $10,176 | -16.14%
Ukraine | Orthodox | $9,283 | -18.68%
Uzbekistan | Muslim | $7,665 | +62.49%
Moldova | Orthodox | $7,305 | -37.28%
Kyrgyzstan | Muslim | $3,844 | +45.37%
Tajikistan | Muslim | $3,416 | +72.03%


*underlined countries are in the EU.
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Old 01-24-2020, 06:48 PM
 
26,793 posts, read 22,572,170 times
Reputation: 10043
Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
I haven't really thought of it that way, but there does seem to be a correlation, however there is also another correlation that southern countries are almost always poorer than their northern natives, such as Spain, Italy and Greece being poorer than UK, France and Germany.

But just to play around with this, lets compare how post communist countries are doing.

Country | Religion | GDP PPP per capita (IMF) | Population growth/decline since 1990ish

Czechia | Catholic | $37,371 | +2.77%
Slovenia | Catholic | $36,746 | +3.60%
Slovakia | Catholic | $35,130 | +2.87%
Lithuania | Catholic | $34,826 | -24.45%

Estonia | Lutheran | $34,096 | -13.50%
Poland | Catholic | $31,939 | +0.76%
Hungary | Catholic | $31,903 | -5.75%

Latvia | Lutheran | $29,901 | -27.50%

Russia | Orthodox | $29,267 | -0.77%
Kazakhstan | Muslim | $27,550 | +11.08%
Romania | Orthodox | $26,447 | -15.76%
Croatia | Catholic | $26,221 | -14.44%
Bulgaria | Orthodox | $23,156 | -21.78%

Belarus | Orthodox | $20,003 | -7.02%

Turkmenistan | Muslim | $19,527 | N/A
Montenegro | Orthodox | $19,043 | +4.23%
Azerbaijan | Muslim | $18,076 | +42.16%
Serbia | Orthodox | $17,555 | -11.59%
Macedonia | Orthodox | $15,709 | +8.80%

Bosnia | Muslim | $13,491 | -20.44%
Mongolia | Buddhist | $13,447 | +58.44%
Albania | Muslim | $13,345 | -11.96%
Georgia | Orthodox | $11,485 | -23.18%
Armenia | Oriental | $10,176 | -16.14%
Ukraine | Orthodox | $9,283 | -18.68%
Uzbekistan | Muslim | $7,665 | +62.49%
Moldova | Orthodox | $7,305 | -37.28%
Kyrgyzstan | Muslim | $3,844 | +45.37%
Tajikistan | Muslim | $3,416 | +72.03%


*underlined countries are in the EU.

I think this data has little to do with religion, or rather denominations within the Christian church per se, ( other than probably clear difference between christian and non-christian countries,)
but it has more to do with what I was referring to in this particular post.

And economic ties of course.
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Old 01-24-2020, 07:52 PM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
5,699 posts, read 4,935,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post



..Or even better, ( the most exact and brilliant assessment on a subject I've ever heard) was


"No matter what will be negotiated between Berlin Paris and Moscow, the one appointed as "guilty" and paying the ultimate price will be always Voronezh."
(Voronezh is one of the poorest cities of Russia.)



( "Ðеважно о чём договорÑÑ‚ÑÑ Ð‘ÐµÑ€Ð»Ð¸Ð½ Париж и МоÑква, виноватым вÑегда назначат Воронеж.")





( Or something like that.)
I know we are supposed to be discussing Bulgaria...
But is it though? Why is it one of the fastest growing major cities in Russia then?

2010: 889,680
2019: 1,054,111
Change: +164,431 (+18.48%)

the only other city with more than 1 million growing faster is Krasnodar. And although the Oblast is below the national average in terms of GDP per Capita ($19,321 vs $29,267) it's still wealthier than many other Oblasts such as Rostov Oblast with only $13,278 per capita.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...GDP_per_capita
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Old 01-24-2020, 08:08 PM
 
26,793 posts, read 22,572,170 times
Reputation: 10043
Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
I know we are supposed to be discussing Bulgaria...
But is it though? Why is it one of the fastest growing major cities in Russia then?

2010: 889,680
2019: 1,054,111
Change: +164,431 (+18.48%)

the only other city with more than 1 million growing faster is Krasnodar. And although the Oblast is below the national average in terms of GDP per Capita ($19,321 vs $29,267) it's still wealthier than many other Oblasts such as Rostov Oblast with only $13,278 per capita.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...GDP_per_capita

I see they ( Voronezh) received 8,000 migrants ( from Central Asia I assume) just in one year ( 2017.)
Krasnodar on another hand is one of the wealthiest cities ( by the look of it,) so there might be a different story there.

It's Southern part of Russia after all, and plenty of "Northerners" want to move there...




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9Bs8a8kGj4

Last edited by erasure; 01-24-2020 at 08:32 PM..
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Old 01-25-2020, 01:20 AM
 
5,214 posts, read 4,026,336 times
Reputation: 3468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnerbro View Post
That's a steep decline if I ever saw one.

Which leads to the question: can you trust such data? The fact 90% of the posters are trying to turn the discussion about Russia/Trozky/Putin should tell you something too.
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Old 01-25-2020, 01:39 AM
 
5,214 posts, read 4,026,336 times
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Anyway this thread showed Bulgaria is anything but destroyed - 99% posts gravitating about the Soviet Union and pointless history or Austrians not living in Austria complaining Bulgaria only has the black sea . The OP also vanished mysteriously, not giving better data to prove his/her claim.
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Old 01-25-2020, 02:22 PM
 
5,214 posts, read 4,026,336 times
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even the news today about the "destroyed" country speak for itself:


* the government chases away russian diplomates;
* the government also plans to give money to emmigrants to get them back;
* plans about gas hub with Greece



Etc, nothing "destroyed" and that's the last hours...OP should keep bs titles like that when they fit: war torn countries like Syria.
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Old 01-25-2020, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
6,812 posts, read 4,254,250 times
Reputation: 18643
I don't know if Bulgaria is destroyed. I don't think I'd agree with that statement actually. I also never said that Bulgaria's condition can be entirely blamed on the communist era, but communism didn't exactly lead to a blossoming of wealth anywhere in the Soviet bloc so it seems fair enough to assume it didn't do much for Bulgaria's prosperity either.



How do I see Bulgaria is a backward country? Well, Bulgaria's average wages are the lowest in all of the EU. People in countries like Germany, Austria, the Netherlands or Denmark make six or seven times more. Life expectancy is some of the lowest in Europe. And unsurprisingly you get Bulgarian migrants performing menial jobs in Western countries.



I get you're defending your home country, and that is fine, but you have a weird position given you've spent a lot of time on here talking about migrating to other nations.
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Old 01-25-2020, 03:31 PM
 
5,214 posts, read 4,026,336 times
Reputation: 3468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas Vincit View Post
I don't know if Bulgaria is destroyed. I don't think I'd agree with that statement actually. I also never said that Bulgaria's condition can be entirely blamed on the communist era, but communism didn't exactly lead to a blossoming of wealth anywhere in the Soviet bloc so it seems fair enough to assume it didn't do much for Bulgaria's prosperity either.



How do I see Bulgaria is a backward country? Well, Bulgaria's average wages are the lowest in all of the EU. People in countries like Germany, Austria, the Netherlands or Denmark make six or seven times more. Life expectancy is some of the lowest in Europe. And unsurprisingly you get Bulgarian migrants performing menial jobs in Western countries.



I get you're defending your home country, and that is fine, but you have a weird position given you've spent a lot of time on here talking about migrating to other nations.

The irony is you're and Austrian living not just in another EU country but a different continent and in a country whose bigger foe is frankly Russia (I mean - America) so I wasn't surprised you tended to pick on the soviet times so heavily...


I am still living in Bulgaria and already in my 30s...if I've wanted to go elsewhere since I started posting on city-data (~2014): 1st I haven't and 2: it was to a very distant country whose culture is fundamentally different from not just Bulgaria but even the western world and everywhere where Christianity has set foot in the last hundreds of years, in other words: my only motivation has been just variety and not to escape the "doom" bulgaria is according to this thread.



Like I said I don't believe the stats, neither about all the zillions of money the EU gives to Bulgaria, nor the emmigration statistics not even the data from the "bulgarian academy of sciences" - they're among the least respected entities in the country.



What you "proved" are just random/thrown away stereotypes it will be like me saying americans are seriall killers and drug dealers since I've watched it in a movie, nothing that can be backed up by real evidences from sources not affiliated to politics.
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Old 01-25-2020, 03:52 PM
 
17,874 posts, read 15,966,007 times
Reputation: 11662
Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes View Post
So, now is the time to welcome immigrants.
What I am thinking. All those vids and what not is just propaganda by whoever is in charge of EU.
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