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Old 01-26-2020, 02:25 PM
 
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Buildings built during communism are notorious for being ugly. Then again, their main purpose was functionality over form. How to cram as many people as possible in a small area.
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Old 01-26-2020, 02:29 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
Buildings built during communism are notorious for being ugly. Then again, their main purpose was functionality over form. How to cram as many people as possible in a small area.

yeah the functionality part even being debatable...bulgaria has a huge problem with earthquakes as a southern country and what works in Moscow is different. Also, I am not sure what erasure meant under "Getting them for free" - I've never heard about this just vaguely remember something about hearing how the government used to exchange them for houses but you surely don't get a condo from the communists because 'why not' - don't forget the government limitation that you cannot build a house over 120 sq. m2.
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Old 01-26-2020, 02:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
Contrary to the belief in the West that communism = pro woman's reproductive rights... actually some communist governments basically punished woman for not having children and abortion was often totally banned. Romania had the menstruation police. I don't know if Bulgaria specifically had similar programs but all former communist nations have very low birth rates as a backlash against those policies.

No it's not "contrary to belief" - it's all actually true, but depends when and where.

Take for example the history of abortion in the Soviet Union -

"The Soviet government was the first government in Europe to legalize abortion. In October 1920 the Bolsheviks made abortion legal within the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic with their “Decree on Women’s Healthcare.” After the RSFSR the law was introduced in Ukraine (5 July 1921) and then the remainder of the Soviet Union.[9] The government saw legalization as a temporary necessity, as after the economic crisis and nearly a decade of unrest, war, revolution, and civil war, many women would be seeking abortions due to not being able to take care of their child"


Restrictions and outright ban from 1936 to 1955 were placed for a reason that Russia was losing population and fast - because of the previous Civil war, the total destruction of the country because of it ( typhus alone took 3 million lives,) collectivization, and then the following WWII with millions of lives lost again. (And this what makes those "20 million killed by Stalin" a fluke - the statistics that show how many people Russians lost for different reasons, so if those "20 million" were true on top of them, the country would have simply collapsed demographically.)
But anyways. Stalin ( whose government outlawed the abortion) soon figured out that women would countinue seeking it, since many of them were ending up dead in the "back alleys."

With other words, when women were determined to NOT to have a child, they were finding the way, government's prohibition or not.

Why? Because culturally ( at that point at least) big part of Russian women had tendency to rely exclusively on themselves to raise in child, not keeping men in mind ( they could be there today and gone tomorrow for a number of reasons.) And if women felt like they couldn't take care of a child, then the child needed to go, before it was even born.

So instead of just enforcing the law, Soviet government went to talk to the women seeking abortions, trying to figure out what it could do to encourage women to not to abort the *unwanted* children. ( I put the "unwanted" in quotation marks, since it was assumed that if not for the circumstances, Russian women were usually making very good, devoted mothers and normally were willing to have children.)

Lack of funds/lack of child care for working women were cited in most of cases, and that's how Soviet government had to come up with the pro-natal policies. Daycares, maternal leave, milk kitchens and the rest came about as the result of it.

Back in 1955, with Stalin already gone and USSR recovering from the WWII, abortion ( and women reproductive rights) came back in place.

The number of abortions was still high and child birth was relatively low, ( with so many people living in cities now, instead of the country side,) however under the socialist system and women's rights, ANY woman could afford to have a child, being married or out of wedlock - (didn't matter, since out of wedlock births were not stigmatized.) With guaranteed roof over their heads, maternal leave, free child care, and guaranteed income (i.e. guaranteed jobs) any woman could pull it through, "rich or poor," and that's what kept the demographics steady.
In THAT part of the world, (where women traditionally rely only on themselves first of all to raise children, and not usually challenged in their maternal rights and responsibilities,) it's very easy to manipulate the demographics, once the social security net is removed, and women feel insecure in their ability to provide for children.
The removal of social security net automatically means demographic decline over there.


It's a VERY different story in the US, with a staunch background in capitalism and women's dependency on men.

P.S. When it comes specifically to Romania - as I've already said, they've had a weirdo there for a ruler.

Last edited by erasure; 01-26-2020 at 02:54 PM..
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Old 01-26-2020, 04:26 PM
 
26,787 posts, read 22,549,184 times
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Originally Posted by euro123 View Post
Well it's not my fault 99% of the posters in this thread have a strong interest in the soviet union...given a chance I won't talk about it as it's among my least favorite times in the 1300+ years history of Bulgaria and like I said several times: it's not even something recent.



Also, this is Bulgaria from the 30s...forget about the few recent build-ups I gave as an example if you go to a village with old houses before the commie blocks they still look better or at least more individual and you get the idea people had a choice what to build back then:


1930-1940:


That's not "Bulgaria" Euro - that's one of the main streets of Sofia, the capital city you know...

And even that one was named after some Russian general from Imperial times, ( go figure ,) so try harder to see what BULGARIA really used to be before the WWII.
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Old 01-26-2020, 04:30 PM
 
26,787 posts, read 22,549,184 times
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Originally Posted by euro123 View Post
yeah the functionality part even being debatable...bulgaria has a huge problem with earthquakes as a southern country and what works in Moscow is different. Also, I am not sure what erasure meant under "Getting them for free" - I've never heard about this just vaguely remember something about hearing how the government used to exchange them for houses but you surely don't get a condo from the communists because 'why not' - don't forget the government limitation that you cannot build a house over 120 sq. m2.

I don't know what you've "heard" - I *hear* a lot things that are not true lately.
And I have no idea what "condo from the communists" are you talking about either.
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Old 01-26-2020, 07:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
It's another one of the countries where the IMF imposed economic shock therapy in the 90's. They forced the government to divest itself of state-run industries and sell them to foreign investors. It's the same result of a currency collapse, very high unemployment, and hyperinflation.
So the IMF screws them over? You think foreign investors be a good thing. But it seems like they just siphoning off wealth.
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Old 01-26-2020, 07:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
So the IMF screws them over?

Yes.


Quote:
You think foreign investors be a good thing. But it seems like they just siphoning off wealth.
Yes, and in the process they share profits with the few on top, the ones that are willing to open the gates to this Trojan horse.
The rest of the population is left out in the cold/forced to leave or die out.

That's how the system is set.

Then comes someone like DKM and explains how great the "GDP-PPP-QMP" looks, and what an "improvement" it is for the country. (Never mind the ever dwindling numbers of the population in question.)

Last edited by erasure; 01-26-2020 at 08:10 PM..
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Old 01-26-2020, 07:50 PM
 
12,022 posts, read 11,572,686 times
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Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
So the IMF screws them over? You think foreign investors be a good thing. But it seems like they just siphoning off wealth.
They get in at rock bottom prices since the economy is wracked by the restructuring. Investors, bankers, diplomats, etc. also get seats on boards or contracts as part of the lobbying that takes place to get foreign aid.

Bulgaria has very little oil and gas reserves of its own. I think their best position is as a Black Sea resort, the Turkish Stream gas pipeline, and as a gateway for the overland route between Western Europe and CHina.
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Old 01-26-2020, 08:08 PM
 
26,787 posts, read 22,549,184 times
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Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
They get in at rock bottom prices since the economy is wracked by the restructuring. Investors, bankers, diplomats, etc. also get seats on boards or contracts as part of the lobbying that takes place to get foreign aid.

I think that Bill Browder described it rather well in his book.
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Old 01-26-2020, 10:01 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,858,538 times
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Here they come, piling in with their thinly veiled anti western posts. I really appreciate all Putin has contributed to the world since he launched his counter revolution in 2014, he's going to avenge the death of the Ussr isn't he?
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