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Indians and Chinese are rising for good reasons. Obama sees that, hence the call for greater emphasis on education and parental role towards that direction. Do you?
Given your response, I didn't miss your point. You reiterated the point I caught with your "point" above and then presenting something as your preferred point (which, coincidentally, also happens to be Obama's point as well but you won't acknowledge that... and the point Santorum has lied and distorted... aren't you as well?). Here's relevant quote by Obama:
“The goal isn’t just making sure that somebody has got a certificate or a diploma. The goal is to make sure your degree helps you to get a promotion or a raise or a job. And that’s especially important right now.”
- President Obama
So, it doesn't matter if you like Santorum or not (but are likely to vote for him anyway, if Romney doesn't get thru). As I've repeatedly told other people claiming to be "different", that you quite aren't. So, leave claims aside and stick with what you speak.
The bottom line is, Santorum was painting those that hold "Obama's views" on education as snobs, and that we want to indoctrinate children with liberal thinking. I don't see how sending a child to a college is indoctrinating them with liberal thinking, except that we do expect people to learn and develop their minds, as well as becoming intellectually diverse as part of their college years. If that is indoctrinating liberalism, than I fail to see the negative about the point.
He wants to create a belief and pin it to Obama, so that he can criticize Obama for that belief in front of certain crowds. Republican candidates continue to do this on various topics. Create a position that Obama doesn't really hold, and then criticize him for it.
Agreed. We have too many people going to college as is. It's not anti-education, it's common sense. Does anybody really think going $50,000 in debt only to end up waiting tables or working as a sales clerk is a good investment? Our society is seeing a lot of this today because there are far more graduates than there are jobs available that need degrees. Unemployment is lower for those with degrees but there is a HUGE under-employment crisis right now for young college graduates.
the average debt is $24,000, not $50,000. those headline catching stories about students graduating with massive debt are great news sellers, but it's not the norm (yet). And by what measure do we have "too many people going to college"? By measure of the number of electrical engineers, chemical engineers, actuaries, computer programmers, etc that are needed right now to fill open job positions? Unemployment for actuaries is 0%. That's right...there are not enough people going to college to fill the positions.
There are specific degrees that are certainly saturated, but people need to recognize that and choose the other degrees. But it's false to say too many people are going to college.
I don't support Santorum and think he is completely out of touch with the nation he is running to lead, and will probably stay home if he is the nominee, but there are partial truths in many of the things he says. He is correct that too many people are going to college, but it has nothing to do with snobbery or indoctrination. It's basic economics.
too many people going to college? really? how many of the following are degree-related jobs? hint - agriculture is a college degree also.
1. Appraisers & Assessors of Real-Estate (0.4%): I couldn’t believe this at first. 0.4%? Completely counter-intuitive with as few people buying homes as there are. But when you think about it, when are appraisers needed? Not only when homes are being passed from one family to another, but when they are being passed from one family to a bank. Foreclosures! This is an example of where locale and economic trends are a huge driving force.
2. Therapists (0.4%): This is the first of in the health care field. With all of the depressed people out there who are struggling financially, it’s no surprise that therapists are doing well.
3. Managers of Police & Detectives (0.4%): I’m a little surprised on this one with the cutbacks in police force that we’ve been reading about in the news.
4. Locomotive Engineers & Education (0.4%): These guys (or gals) definitely have the ‘locale’ pillar going for them, as well as economic trends, and a scarce skill set. Trains will probably be run by computers at some point, but until then, it will take people. With gas prices so high, the rail business has made a strong comeback.
5. Directors, Religious Activities & Education (0.8%): When the going gets tough, people get all spiritual. They have to, in order to keep their minds.
6. Dentists (0.8%): Definitely have locale and a scarce skill set going for them.
8. Detectives & Criminal Investigators (0.8%): Unemployment inversely proportional to the # of crimes committed?
9. Physicians & Surgeons (0.9%): Aging population trend, locale, and scarce skill set.
10. Occupational Therapists (1.0%): Occupational therapists treat those who are mentally, physically, developmentally, or emotionally disabled. I wonder if all of the vets coming back from their tours has anything to do with this? It would make sense.
11. Farmers & Ranchers (1.2%): Yes, there is the economic trend of rising food prices, which has helped make farming a profitable profession again. However, I think the low unemployment rate here is simply from the fact that if you are a farmer or rancher, you are self-employed and you own land. And as long as you are both, why would you be “unemployed”?
12. Pharmacists (1.2%): Like most medical professions, pharmacists have 3 of the 4 pillars going for them right now: locale, scarce skill set, and economic forces/trends.
13. Dental Hygienists (1.2%): Throw dentists and hygienists in with the medical professionals.
14. Clergy (1.4%): Pretty hard to lose your job when god is on your side (or lose football games).
15. Veterinarians (1.4%): A bit surprising in that many families who have been foreclosed upon have given up their pets. Of course, many of those were lower income families who didn’t take their animals to the vet in the first place.
16. Lawyers (1.5%): There’s always going to be bull**** lawsuits out there. And how many lawyers are going to admit they are ‘unemployed’ in the first place?
17. Police & Sheriff’s Patrol Officers (1.7%): Third ‘criminal justice’ occupation to make the list.
18. Operations Research Analysts (2.0%): You think it’d be easy to fire someone who you don’t even know what the heck it is they due. Apparently not.
19. Judges, Magistrates, & Other Judicial Workers (2.0%): 4th criminal justice occupation to make the top 20 list. I need to look into this trend more, because it’s not very intuitive other than crime rates being up due to more people falling on hard economic times.
19. Physical Therapists (2.0%): Medical. Again.
20. Psychologists (2.1%): Medical. Yet Again.
21. Registered Nurses (2.1%): I had to add nurses, even though they were just outside of the top 20. Why? At 2.84 million, there are more than 2.5 X employed nurses out there than any other occupation on this list (lawyers came in second at 1.04 million). Why is that important? It’s one thing to have an unemployment rate of 2.0% when there are only 71,000 jobs out there (judicial workers), but it’s an entirely different thing when there is 2.8 million. That signals a true strong demand for that occupation. And this is one that is not going away anytime soon.
I don't see why it's difficult to make the point that education is not for everyone, without insulting those who choose the path of education.
Yes, and I hope you meant to say "higher education." I agree with most of what you've posted on this thread, but education is important at every level.
Here's just one example: In Florida many jobs pay minimum wage and the starting salary in supermarkets like Publix and Winn-Dixie averages $9/hr. An LPN working in a hospital earns an average of $19/hr. Of course the job isn't for everyone, but it's a one year course full time. (there are part-time programs too) If a high school graduate who is working as a cashier or stock person could get the means of support to get certified, that person would double his income.
Most people know lots of people who have a college education but have jobs they could have gotten without that college education. They are stuck with college loans to pay off which they wouldn't have if they skipped college and went to work for the places they work at now. That diploma is not what it use to be when so many people have one and the job market is not there. My nephew installs glass for a company and his diploma is just for hanging on the wall.
He has a family to support now and that college money could have come in handy.
Most people know lots of people who have a college education but have jobs they could have gotten without that college education. They are stuck with college loans to pay off which they wouldn't have if they skipped college and went to work for the places they work at now. That diploma is not what it use to be when so many people have one and the job market is not there. My nephew installs glass for a company and his diploma is just for hanging on the wall.
He has a family to support now and that college money could have come in handy.
Not this guy. But then, I was fortunate enough to not have to worry about taking loans to get my bachelors and masters degrees (in engineering). You may blame the "socialist" European system for making it all relatively inexpensive to the people.
And then, my company paid for my MBA because I was well qualified for the benefits and climbing up the ladder. Wouldn't have thought about it, if I were making excuses about skipping college altogether, or not making excuses but simply being unfit. I did have a colleague who was disinterested in going to college but was able to enter the sector during boom time of the 1990s. But beginning in early 2000s, the threat of being laid off in a competitive market, had him revise his thinking. It was too late to consider college, so he decided to go towards getting licensed as master electrician. It is about five years since, so I assume he is done with it but this only highlights the inevitability... you've got to respect education. There's a reason we look for hiring people in China and India.
Last edited by EinsteinsGhost; 02-27-2012 at 01:47 PM..
Even though I think he is a wacko I know what Rick Santorum is trying to say. He is making it look like Obama (and maybe he is) is saying that anyone who doesn't go to college is not worth anything compared to those who go to college. No college and you are scum.
I am not sure if Obama meant that or just that he wanted to give people who wanted to go to college a better shot. It's impossible to tell nowadays what people mean because they are constantly correcting themselves or changing their minds.
Not this guy. But then, I was fortunate enough to not have to worry about taking loans to get my bachelors and masters degrees (in engineering). You may blame the "socialist" European system for making it all relatively inexpensive to the people.
And then, my company paid for my MBA because I was well qualified for the benefits and climbing up the ladder. Wouldn't have thought about it, if I were making excuses about skipping college altogether, or not making excuses but simply being unfit. I did have a colleague who was disinterested in going to college but was able to enter the sector during boom time of the 1990s. But beginning in early 2000s, the threat of being laid off in a competitive market, had him revise his thinking. It was too late to consider college, so he decided to go towards getting licensed as master electrician. It is about five years since, so I assume he is done with it but this only highlights the inevitability... you've got to respect education. There's a reason we look for hiring people in China and India.
Are you my husband? LOL He did the same thing as you did. His company paid for his MBA if he kept a certain grade average. But he took out loans to pay for his college and worked in between courses to save up until he got it.
My SS went into the Army right out of high school for 4 years, when he came out he could have gone to college with his military benefits, he tried but the benefits never came through or he lost interest. He is now an apprentice to an electrician. He hasn't gotten the license yet but will someday. So for him college was not in the cards.
I think Obama wants everybody to go to college on the tax payers dime. Another entitlement when a big group will just play it away the first year and hopefully when they can't make the grade average won't go the next year. In the mean time our tax dollars will be party/pissed away.
Are you my husband? LOL He did the same thing as you did. His company paid for his MBA if he kept a certain grade average. But he took out loans to pay for his college and worked in between courses to save up until he got it.
My SS went into the Army right out of high school for 4 years, when he came out he could have gone to college with his military benefits, he tried but the benefits never came through or he lost interest. He is now an apprentice to an electrician. He hasn't gotten the license yet but will someday. So for him college was not in the cards.
One of the reasons we're losing to China and India is that we don't value education. The push away from it doesn't help but worsens the effect.
Quote:
I think Obama wants everybody to go to college on the tax payers dime. Another entitlement when a big group will just play it away the first year and hopefully when they can't make the grade average won't go the next year. In the mean time our tax dollars will be party/pissed away.
BS. Do you subscribe to the idea based on your analysis or the Santorum kind of presentation of facts? Sounds like the latter to me.
We are losing to China because they pay people slave wages.
I don't know what Santorum thinks about it but many parents complain their kid went to college to play. Let them pick up the tab for that and not tax payers when our country is about to go bankrupt.
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