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Unfortunately my family is bland so I don't use many spices and I don't add salt to any food because of my heart. Now don't you want to eat at my house?...LOL
But I can't believe garlic is bad....I thought garlic was ok for dogs and they just love it! No more meatballs for the dogs. *sigh*
Diahrrea after changing to raw, cooked food or a really good kibble is called Detoxing. It's perfectly normal until they adjust and get rid of all of the toxins in their system. It may take a few months.
heh
"A few months" of mastiff diarrhea is not on my agenda.
I had thought that the loose stools were just the fact that our dogs had completely chewed up and eaten the entire raw beef bone, but I realize that any change in food can bring a change in digestion.
I have heard that onions are more dangerous than garlic. I know a guy who feeds his Lab garlic oil every single day.
Dogs are not carnivores, so if you give them meat, I would add some veggies too. If your dogs seem to stomach the switching back and forth without problem I wouldn't worry too much about problems developing. Most dogs would get diarrhea right away from GI upset...not detoxing...the dog does not feel good from this process, and if not addressed, it can cause problems that will end up in a trip to the vet.
Once in a while isn't a big deal as long as the dogs are still getting a good balance the rest of the time. If it becomes more frequent, I would look into home cooked diets more to make sure they are all getting good nutrition.
Irish, if it is occasionally, it should not be an issue. CADRMNDANES, why would you feed a dog veggies especially potatoes? Just curious, as dogs are carnivores, and have no use for veggies especially filler starches
MBG
Actually, it's cats who are carnivores, but dogs are omnivores... most canned dog food (like the Pro-Plan I feed my dog) has vegetables too, usually potatoes, peas & carrots. Some even have fruit, like the Merrick brand I get occasionally, which has apples. However, last night I threw him a piece of a green apple I was eating, and he spit it out - then looked at me like "You tryin' to poison me or something?" Guess that was a bit sour for his picky tastebuds. Anyway, yes they do & should eat a variety of foods besides meat (though meat should be the primary part of their diet).
Dogs are not carnivores, so if you give them meat, I would add some veggies too. If your dogs seem to stomach the switching back and forth without problem I wouldn't worry too much about problems developing. Most dogs would get diarrhea right away from GI upset...not detoxing...the dog does not feel good from this process, and if not addressed, it can cause problems that will end up in a trip to the vet.
Once in a while isn't a big deal as long as the dogs are still getting a good balance the rest of the time. If it becomes more frequent, I would look into home cooked diets more to make sure they are all getting good nutrition.
Good luck.
Dogs are carnivores... they might be opportunistic omnivores, but science disagrees with them being actual omnivores. Dogs do not need veggies. Of Carnivores, Omnivores, Teeth, and Science
There are two ways to look at the issue of diet for a species.
03 November 2004 I call one of them the empty bowl method. You ask yourself what you need to fill that bowl with to assemble all the nutrients that the species needs and will thrive on, and then you do your best to get all those various substances together in the right amounts and make it palatable. This is the method used to formulate kibble.
I call the other the evolutionary model. You ask yourself what the species evolved eating during times of abundant habitat and high reproductive rates, and then seek to reproduce that.
In the real world, people tend to fall somewhere between those two approaches, with most landing very, very far over toward the "empty bowl" method, and those of us in the holistic camp falling substantially closer to the evolutionary method end.
If we want to feed according to the evolutionary method, we have to ask some basic scientific questions:
What species is the dog? What animal's evolutionary history do we look at to determine its natural diet? (And by the way, "natural diet" is not a marketing term, it's a scientific term meaning the diet the species eats in the wild during times of abundant habitat and food supply, and without the intrusion of humans. In other words, just because bears raid trash cans does not make nacho cheese-smeared paper part of their "natural diet.")
In what ways did the natural diet change over time and geographically?
What non-diet elements, such as hibernation and normal activity levels, might interact closely with diet and thus impact our understanding of the data?
What effects do scientists observe as indicating poor habitat/food availability for this species? In other words, when researching this species, what things seem to happen that tell scientists there was trouble in paradise as far as food supply goes?
Taking dogs as our species in question, we have to answer, what species is the dog? Dogs are a domesticated variant of the grey wolf, canis lupus. Their taxonomical classification is canis lupus familiaris. They are the same species as the wolf. They can interbreed and produce fertile offspring. They are more similar by far to the wolf than any other canid species, such as the coyote or the fox.
Wolves, including the domesticated wolf we call the dog, are classified biologically as being in the order carnivora. There is absolutely, positively no scientific debate, dissension, or discussion on this issue. Why, then, do so many “experts†say the dog is an omnivore?
The only reason any "expert" would ever say a dog is an omnivore is because he or she is an "expert" in a field other than the taxonomy of a species. No wildlife biologist or zoologist would ever tell you a dog or wolf is not a carnivore. But pet food manufacturers will tell you dogs are omnivores, because to them, "omnivore" means an animal who can eat both animal and plant foods. The problem is, if that were the scientific definition of "carnivore," there would be no carnivores on this earth. Why, then, is there so much disagreement on this issue?
I believe it is because we don't share a common definition of our terms. Scientifically, the species of the dog is canis lupus familiaris. The dog is a grey wolf. The grey wolf is a carnivore. Those things are crystal clear in a scientific sense, but hearing this distresses many people, because they are using the more common meanings of those words, and in common usage, obviously a dog is not a wolf and they are not "carnivores." In common usage, a "carnivore" is an animal that eats only meat, and a wolf is a wild animal. And so we go round and round arguing, and getting nowhere.
Going back to our list of questions, we now look at the natural, evolutionary diet of the grey wolf. To do that, we look at the research and writings of the most respected, best-known wolf researcher in the world, David Mech. We crack open his book The Wolf: The Ecology and Behaviour of an Endangered Species, where we find that worldwide, all evidence tells us that the wolf, today and in the past, ate mostly large ungulates (deer, gazelle, and similar prey), with a small amount of hare and beaver filling in seasonally and regionally. They ate almost no vegetation, not even the stomach contents of their prey, although "almost none" is not "none."
Some carnivores eat a lot more vegetation than the wolf, and a few, such as the big cats, eat less. One carnivore eats only the trace amount of animal protein that comes with the bugs that live on the vegetation it eats... the panda bear. Pandas took an odd evolutionary turn as they adapted to their vegetarian diet, but this quirky adaptation has left them extremely vulnerable in their environment, and the only carnivorous mammal that literally eats every waking hour. They are an anomaly in their order, but they do go to show that the scientific definition of "carnivore" obviously is not the same as the popular definition, or a panda bear couldn't be a carnivore.More here:
http://www.doggedblog.com/doggedblog...nivores_o.html (broken link)
I post this because there is a lot of misinformation out there about dogs and diet and what they need.
Have a great weekend all!
MBG
I guess I should specify...dogs are not TRUE carnivores...they are omnivores. But if you look at most of the really high quality dog diets, they are chicken (or whatever protein), potatoes, carrots, apples, along with other suplemental type things for added vitamins, minerals whatever. I am certainly not a animal nutritionist, but I doubt anyone on here is, and my main point is that dogs should not be fed solely meat for a diet. And since it seems the original poster is only feeding meat occassionally, some veggies and things would give some nutrients in between feeding the regular dog kibble.
Dogs are carnivores, NOT omnivores. They will eat veggies if they are presented to them along with the rest of their diet, but they do not need them and most don't prefer them. I have been feeding my three dogs raw (uncooked only) for almost three years, and they only get veggies if they happen to be getting some leftovers -- almost never. The only supplement they get is salmon oil. People seem to think that because veggies are good for us, they must be good for our animals, and I know some feed their dogs a vegetarian diet. They will survive, but they will not thrive. My dogs are in wonderful health, they have beautiful, allergy-free skin and coats, clean breath and very small stools.
MBG, thanks for posting that great information -- saves me from finding and posting
Thank you for these great posts!! When I was homecooking, I, too, was worried about including starch & veggies ... which ones, how much.... Had to end when I looked into what is high in Oxalates, as my doggie has had stones, so will do anything to keep that from recurring. Former "Vet" pushed SD "Perscription" quite aggressively, so I had to get on the (quite frantic) ball!
The old "what if I don't listen?" syndrome, dreadful! Talk about being between a boulder & a hard place! I'd give him McDonald's before that stuff because Mickey D's is much cheaper, probably healthier, and it actually has meat in it LOL.
Thought I hit the lotto with Cabbage; low in oxalates and my dog absolutely loves it, so bought a head just for his batches. But just before cooking, just had to quadruple check on the Net, again, and saw "bloating"
I was amazed at the so many fruits & veggies to ease up on for bladder-stones -- us humans, too.
Dogs are carnivores, NOT omnivores. They will eat veggies if they are presented to them along with the rest of their diet, but they do not need them and most don't prefer them. I have been feeding my three dogs raw (uncooked only) for almost three years, and they only get veggies if they happen to be getting some leftovers -- almost never. The only supplement they get is salmon oil. People seem to think that because veggies are good for us, they must be good for our animals, and I know some feed their dogs a vegetarian diet. They will survive, but they will not thrive. My dogs are in wonderful health, they have beautiful, allergy-free skin and coats, clean breath and very small stools.
MBG, thanks for posting that great information -- saves me from finding and posting
I guess I should specify...dogs are not TRUE carnivores...they are omnivores. But if you look at most of the really high quality dog diets, they are chicken (or whatever protein), potatoes, carrots, apples, along with other suplemental type things for added vitamins, minerals whatever. I am certainly not a animal nutritionist, but I doubt anyone on here is, and my main point is that dogs should not be fed solely meat for a diet. And since it seems the original poster is only feeding meat occassionally, some veggies and things would give some nutrients in between feeding the regular dog kibble.
Just because we as people choose do feed our animals something does not change the the fact that dogs as well as cats belong to the order Carnivora. Which means they are meat eaters.
Here is a simple dictionary definition or carnivore:
1. an animal that eats flesh.
2. a flesh-eating mammal of the order Carnivora, comprising the dogs, cats, bears, seals, and weasels.
3. an insectivorous plant.
1. An animal that feeds chiefly on the flesh of other animals. Carnivores include predators such as lions and alligators, and scavengers such as hyenas and vultures. In a food chain, carnivores are either secondary or tertiary consumers. Compare detritivore, herbivore.
2. Any of various generally meat-eating mammals of the order Carnivora. Carnivores have large, sharp canine teeth and large brains, and the musculoskeletal structure of their forelimbs permits great flexibility for springing at prey. Many carnivores remain in and defend a single territory. Dogs, cats, bears, weasels, raccoons, hyenas, and (according to some classifications) seals and walruses are all carnivores.
2. A plant that eats insects, such as a Venus flytrap.
A living thing that eats meat. Among mammals, there is an order of carnivores, including primarily meat-eating animals such as tigers and dogs. Some plants, such as the Venus's-flytrap, are carnivores.
omnivore :
An animal whose normal diet includes both plants and animals. Human beings and bears, for instance, are omnivores.
Dogs do not need vegetables, it is not part of their natural diet, it is what we impose on them.
canid:
Any of various carnivorous mammals of the family Canidae, which includes the dogs, wolves, foxes, coyotes, and jackals.
MBG
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