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we have talked all the options over with the vet and she said the only thing that may work would be chemotherapy. (I don't know the exact kind of cancer it is, my husband got the call and he could barely tell me because he was so upset. It tough to see a man cry that hard I didn't want to ask to many questions right away.) She also said it was so advanced that chemo would be harder on him then anything. The last thing I want is him to be in pain. Hopefully the prednisone will shrink it and he will be around for many many more months.
Keep in mind the months left the vet has given you are averages and Buddy is not an average he is an individual. Dash's swelling showed up in Feb 2009 and the oncologist said I only had weeks left. He was diagnosed in March 2008 and given 6 months to a year with the palliative IMRT yet he made it to the last day of Sept 2009 and had a good quality life except for when infections hit him.
I know there are some dogs such as Bear that have used things like the Budwig diet and are still alive having lived way past those silly averages. My friends dog had advanced liver cancer and they also were given weeks yet that dog lived for over a year and once again with no treatment and a good quality of life so you just never know.some have a strong will of survival. You could be the short survival time or the long one that those averages come from only God knows which.
Enjoy every day with Buddy and shower him with love and doing things he loves to do . Working in a hospital for 30 yrs it is the people that love life and enjoy it that seem too live way past the averages, I think that is true of dogs too. Sorry about you bad news. Hugs to you and your husband. Jan
Buddy's Mom, I'm also thinking about you during this hard time. This is a really crappy disease.
I would second other's opinions in considering seeing a veterinary oncologist if the vet you have talked to isn't one. Scout's tumor was also large, having invaded his brain case and eye socket and they still performed palliative IMRT. It stopped all symptoms--sneezing and bloody noses during every walk--completely. We have also now had three chemotherapy treatments with no side effects all. In fact, we just walked in from an hour-long ski to get the ya-yas out after our long day at chemo today. Granted, the time we have like this is likely short, but when we weighed Scout's age and physical condition, it was the right decision for us. There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing nothing, but I think it's important to know that conventional treatment really has made a difference for some dogs with this disease.
We started Buddy on the prednisone today. Hopefully this will slow everything down a bit. They did give me tramadol for pain, we have not started that as he doesn't seem to be in any pain right now. One question, I read that prednisone is the last option for cancer when it has spread to far, it that true?
I just came in from playing ball with him and our other dogs. He had a great time. He was running around like nothing was wrong, well except for being older, that is one thing I will miss the most.
I did find a little peace yesterday. I always knew one day he would have to leave us and I have decided to make as many good memories now while I have the time to do so. I still cry alot but when I look at him I don't feel as sad. I have a feeling he will be around for a long time.
Thank you everyone for your hugs and support in this horrible experience. It is good to know I can go somewhere and share my feelings.
As always I am so glad to hear that Scout is out there enjoying his life. I think that is very important for animals and humans in the face of a terminal illness to live life to the point of enjoyment each and everyday when possible. Not to be babied and restricted from the things they love to do.
I have a friend who had a cattle dog who was a working dog with lung cancer at age 12 and she had surgery done to buy him some time and within days he was back out working cattle, she could not keep him quiet like the vet wanted her too for a couple weeks! He lived another year and worked those cows up til the end.
I also just reconnected with a friend I have not seen in about 38 yrs we were childhood friends until my family moved to California. It turns out she now lives in the San Fransisco area . It also turns out she lost her only sister to ALS a couple years ago. I saw photos of her sister paralyzed from the disease and in a wheelchair but on a trip to Europe with her husband and beautiful daughter and the smiles on her face told it all. She lived life best she could right up to the end and her family saw to that which is what we should be doing for our cancer ridden dogs, ensuring they get to live life up until that final breath.
When Dash's swelling got huge people would ask me how I could still take him to the park? I thought how can I not? Let people stare or make comments he enjoys going and that was what was important. So Go Scout GO!!!
Buddy's mom,
I do not know about the prednisone being the last option as I did not use it on Dash because he was on the perixocam. Both help with inflammation. Perdnisone is probaly the cheaper medicine to use and perhaps better tolerated as some dogs can not do perixocam as it hard on the liver and kidneys and requires monthly blood work. Keep letting Buddy have his fun and give him his pills in something good so he thinks it is a special treat.
I tried to never cry in front of Dash or let him see any fear I felt during his illness as dogs pick up our emotions.I stayed calm and sat with him when he had a nose bleed .He really only had one that was a major one where he looked as if the slasher had gotten him as he was covered in blood and it was right before his IMRT. He was not at all freaked out by nose bleeds. I went to costco and bought a thing of nice big fluffy white towels as they can be bleached clean of the blood and used them for bleeds or even just to clean up blood. If he had a slow bleed I would have him lay on the towel on the dog bed or even the couch. I also bought king sized fleece blankets at Costco and covered my good couch and chairs and yes my bed so nothing was ruined by blood and they were easy to wash and keep clean. He tended to have frequent small bloody noses or bloody sneezes or blood that just slowly oozed out. Just stay calm and act normal when faced with a nose bleed. You get excited and anxious so does he and his heart rate goes up and the blood pressure goes up and the bleed increases.
Try not to think of how much longer do we have with buddy,As that way the focus is death and life becomes what we focus on. Instead enjoy each day you do have and put that focus where it should be, life as he is still alive and each day for any of us is a gift as you can not guarantee he will die before you do as you do not know. I have worked in a hospital for 30 yrs so everyday I see people die suddenly for hundreds of reasons so life is fragile and cancer is just a calling card that warns us the end may be near.Do not let the thought of his death steal what life he does have left from you instead enjoy that life.A lesson learned when my mom had cancer as at first we focued on her death as that fear tends to paralyze you and it becomes all you can think of .Until we stopped and refocused on life we missed the fact that she was still alive and had some fantastic days ahead. When we refocused on life we all started living again and so did she and she had 2.5 years of life instead of 2.5 yrs of impending doom. Because of my mom and my job I had that hands up when Dash was diagnosed so I focused on life and he and I enjoyed our time left together.
Hugs to every one of you still fighting this battle you and your dogs remain in my thoughts and prayers. Jan
I've been reading through this thread and have tried to read most of it. We have a 12 year old Black Lab, Kota, who started to show intense symptoms of a nasal tumour late November 2009.
Looking back we realize the symptoms were there early summer of last year. In a frantic search to find information my boyfriend and I had come across this forum, as I imagine is the case with most people on here. Kota started out sneezing and rubbing his nose and had some weight loss in the summer. In October he had a week of vomiting and diarrhoea, and by the end of November we started to notice a runny nose with bits of blood on furniture.
We took him to the vet November 30 to learn that it likely was cancer, but the diagnosis would be pretty costly - we got three vet's opinions who all strongly felt it was a nasal tumour and decided to avoid the tests as he's an older dog and were advised that the treatment could be difficult on him and may not extend his life by long. We treated him for a fungal infection with antibiotics which seemed to help at first, but his nosebleeds increased, and December 11th at 5am he had a seizure - our puppy, Ruby, woke us up with whining and dancing around just before the seizure started, as she stood over Kota, which alerted us, which we were grateful for. After this a nosebleed started and didn't stop so we tried the Yu-in Biyu, which had helped significantly, and we started giving Kota organic meatballs for his meals and taking him on daily off leash hour long walks.
Kota seemed to be improving, the nosebleeds slowed down, we celebrated his 12th birthday two weeks ago. Then yesterday he had another seizure. He seemed alright last night, no decrease in appetite and this morning was behaving odd, pacing in the backyard, and then had another small seizure after he came in. We thought he could use a walk and late this evening took both dogs for an off leash walk - Kota was running, prancing and playing with the younger dog, Ruby, which is unusual as he normally doesn't care for her, when he suddenly seized, two seizures right after another. We carried him home where he is now continuing to pace, which is difficult for him, as after seizures he loses trunk control, so his legs keep slipping out under him.
Kota was initially my boyfriends ex girlfriend's dog, however she had to give Kota up when she had children, so Kota and I have had our constant battles with him as what I joke being the "step child" - I tell my bf that Kota's just doing his job. He's the first dog I lived with, shortly after we'd moved in together, I got Ruby as "my dog" who plays her little sister role well. Tonight she was so afflicted by Kota's anxiety that she spent a great deal of time trying to calm him by licking his face, as we held him.
I've been reading through this forum more and more tonight and I think we know what we have to do. I can't thank everyone enough for the advice, and information, this indeed is a horrible disease and it's been terrible to watch Kota as he gets sicker.
I am so sorry to hear about Kota. It is never easy to say good bye to a friend. If he is having seizures it has probably spread to his brain and there is really nothing that can be done at that point. It sounds like he had a good life with you and in the end that is all that really does matter. As it is quality of life not quanity that matters. Just know that so many of us here have had to go through that decision so we know the heartache involved with it. You and Kota will be in my prayers tonight. Jan
tillie sneezed out a weird piece of bloody tissue today. as gross as it was we were fascinated by it. was about the size of 1/3 of a thumbnail, crescent shaped, gooey but solid brown/red. ( she is not on neoplascene. ) thought someone - jan? - might have thoughts about it. doesn't seem likely that it's cancer, just some of whatever is blocked up in her nose 100% of the time. we will watch for more as it is now more of a curiosity than anything else. thanks. arlene.
It is hard to say as it could just be some semi dried blood and snot or it could be necrotic ( dead) tissue or yes it could be a piece of the tumor. Back when this all began my regular vet told me he was getting ready to put a dog under for a scope and biopsy when the dog sneezed out a chunk of tissue so they took it and looked at it under the microscope and it looked abnormal like cancer so it was sent to the pathology lab and yes it was cancer and that sneeze spared the dog the scope and his owner lots of money. Sometimes pieces of the tumors do break off and get sneezed out.
How is Tillie doing? I think of her and Scout and the others here often and hope that they are all still going strong and able to enjoy being a dog. Jan
tillie's hanging in there. bleeding a little more the past week - more bright red drops, less pink. and she's gotten a little lazy, probably due to her poor eyesight as much as anything. she spends most of her non-playtime on her bed in the kitchen whereas she used to head upstairs where she could look out the window. not much for her to see now. but she still loves to play with the little dogs and still chases the tennis ball which she does manage to get about 75% of the time. will keep you posted as things change.
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Losing the battle
