Dayton Ohio: Does it still suck there? (Columbus, Cleveland: crime, new house)

[formercalifornian]

Dayton has definitely had its share of transplants, particularly at the beginning of the 20th century. One of my great-grandfathers, his brother, and several other family members came from Connecticut for employment opportunities in 1910. The shared a duplex in north Dayton for several years until each married and started his own household. Most bought or built houses in east Dayton, near Belmont.

Gilloon, I'm saddened that you know so little about Ohio history, which is truly rich and varied. The great majority of my relatives were drawn to Dayton from the east coast during the mid-19th century to the early-20th to participate in the state's boom years. They came to farm the rich midwestern soil, to work in industry (it was more than just cars), to study at one of the dozens of independent colleges sprouting up in the region, and generally just to pursue the American dream. If you were to dig a little more deeply, you might just be surprised to learn how significant a role Dayton and Ohio have played in this nation's history.

Check out this link for a look at the breadth of Ohio industry throughout the state's history. Also, Dale Huffman has done quite a few columns about influential Daytonians and their accomplishments. For example, did you know that the inventor (http://www.daytondailynews.com/o/content/oh/story/opinions/columns/2008/09/21/ddn092108daleweb.html - broken link) of the electric light switch was from Dayton? Does the name Fraze ring a bell? He was the inventor of the pop-top can, and his company DRT (Dayton Reliable Tools) Manufacturing is still headquartered in Dayton. Kettering, Huffman, Wright, & Patterson might be more recognizable names in Dayton history, but Werner and Fraze are just as impressive, and there are many others. As Ohioan58 has pointed out, in its time, Dayton truly was the original Silicon Valley, and just like today's San Jose, it drew people from all over the country who came seeking work in its ground-breaking industries.

I'm very proud to have originally hailed from Dayton, and I still think it's a really great place! I'm so sorry you are having trouble appreciating its tremendous merits.

Dayton's history as the "original Silicon Valley" of inventions has been entirely forgotten by low-IQ rednecks like you who probably drooled on the pages in history class in public school.

I don't remember studying Ohio history in grammar school. I suppose we touched on the topic in middle school, but my real introduction to the significance of Ohio history came during a college elective. I still have the textbook around here somewhere. We also read a fictional book called The Bounty Lands, which is unfortunately now out-of-print.

[JefferyT]

Dayton once had a large immigrant population of Hungarians, Poles, etc. concentrated in North Dayton.

The Hungarians where also on the West Side, and two of their old churches still survive (different denominations today). Up to last year they had 3 hours of Hungarian language programming on Sunday mornings on one of the FM stations here.

The Greeks orginally settled in the neighborhood where Sinclair is today, between 3rd & 5th.

The Italians were east, along East 3rd and East 5th. Their social hall was in a building at 5th & Wayne., and they attended those two old Catholic churches on the near east side...the one on Bainbridge, and the one on 2nd (which was orginally an Irish parish).

For domestic immigration, before the appalachians came there was about 100 imported from Watertown NY to work in the Davis sewing machine factory. Then a lot of folks just migrated in from the farm country around Dayton...big rural in-migration.

The New England connection is interesting. It turns out a Connecticut farmer moved here in the 19th century and brought the tobacco crop with him, which led this being a big cash crop and Dayton being a big tobacco center. For those of you familiar with the location the Canal Street Tavern and the next door Southern Belle (the new Southern Belle, not the Oregon one) was a tobacco warehouse and cigar factory.

So there is a lot here, a lot of history. People in Dayton dont appreciate that.

For IBM, there were three companys that came together to form it. One of them was the Dayton Scale company (plant on Huffman Avenue, still standing), which made a scale that also calculated the price.
Later, Watson, who became the CEO who really built the company, was a former NCR executive. So two Dayton connections to IBM.

Another interesting connection going back to the early days of Dayton industry was the linseed oil buisness, an early ag buisiness. The millls were all run by water power and were between Wyandotte and Patterson. One of the "crushers" was a Mr Archer. Another "crusher" was a Mr Daniels, from Piqua. They formed partnership, but later relocated to Minneapolis where they bought the Midland company, hence Archer-Daniels-Midland. Yes, this big agribiz got its start in Dayton.

Another twin cities connection: Dayton factories built the big water turbines that ran the flour mills in Minneapolis, at the St Anthony Falls.

So from way, way back Dayton was a very entrepeneurial place, with a diversity of business. People forget that it wasnt just NCR and the auto industry that built Dayton.

[formercalifornian]

Originally Posted by JefferyT

Another interesting connection going back to the early days of Dayton industry was the linseed oil buisness, an early ag busiiness. The mills were all run by water power and were between Wyandotte and Patterson. One of the "crushers" was a Mr Archer. Another "crusher" was a Mr Daniels, from Piqua. They formed partnership, but later relocated to Minneapolis where they bought the Midland company, hence Archer-Daniels-Midland. Yes, this big agribiz got its start in Dayton.

Wow! I had no idea. Now that you've brought up Piqua, I recently found a photo of my paternal grandfather standing with his fellow employees in front of Hartzell Propeller. It had to have been taken sometime during the thirties.

For domestic immigration, before the appalachians came there was about 100 imported from Watertown NY to work in the Davis sewing machine factory.

Jeff, could you elaborate on this? My dad and I are amateur genealogists, and Watertown, NY is ringing a bell for me. He and I have been trying to piece together why and how our ancestors came to Dayton. What time period would this have been?

Edit: nevermind! I found this great link (http://www.ismacs.net/davis/davis_story.html - broken link), which answered all my questions. Interesting that I never connected the name Huffman with Huffy bicycles. So much to learn. It's too bad Gilloon and his ilk aren't up for an education.

[Ohioan58]

I'm quite conflicted, to be honest. I grew up in Dayton, moved around the country, moved back here - and this area has absolutely and completely f-*-c-ked me in terms of career opportunities (I am in engineering.)

I think some people (like me) are bitter about Dayton because of the chronic mismanagement of industrial assets in this area - basically, everything in Dayton has been in a process of continual winding-down with plant closings, layoffs and mergers for over 30 years. Dayton is a difficult place to find and to keep a good middle class job, and I think there is a ton of free floating resentment floating beneath the surface, because of the lack of economic opportunity.

Dayton sucks and the people here are very mean. The people here are mean and resentful primarily because they have a hard life. People here even grudgingly tip servers in restaurants - there's always that envy and bitter thing going on. There's little that any survey, focus group, or analysis will add on top of those basic facts. One can move the facts around any way they like, and the fact remains that people under hardship - as the working class has been in Dayton for decades - don't ascend, they devolve.

But some idiot like Gilloon drooling like a retard about "nobody ever moved to Dayton for jobs" is basically a form of disinformation. Dayton *especially* sucks because it was the cradle of so much innovation, has fallen so far, and has been in the hands of dotard do-nothing "everything is peachy" politicos for decades.

If I have reason to be bitter about Dayton, it's because this region has declined so much from its great origins. And I'll be G*d Damned if a moron like Gilloon will take that from me.

If anyone trashes Dayton or anyplace else they ought to know their facts first.

PS: Jeffrey and FormerCalifornian, well done essays. Amazing link to ADM, there.

[JefferyT]

PS: Jeffrey and FormerCalifornian, well done essays. Amazing link to ADM, there.

Thanks, I was suprised to find that out, too. I was doing some historical research into early industry on the old hydraulics and found that out by accident. For Piqua, there still is a business there associated with the industry, the French company, which makes oil pressess.

People here even grudgingly tip servers in restaurants ...

I noticed that too, and blogged on it. Some people got real defensive when I said Dayton was the "city of cheapskates".

[Ohioan58]

I've moved around the country. People in most parts of the US are neutral to nice. People in Dayton can often be very mean. Which is surprising because on the surface Dayton isn't that harsh an environment. Dayton (as well as some parts of Cincinnati) is the only place I've lived where someone will match your speed to keep you from moving onto a freeway.

I think what prevails in Dayton is defensive self protectionism. People are mean and think in a zero sum way because they are scared to death of losing ground themselves. An example would be a bunch of old farts who all share some common bond, like membership in the Masonic Lodge as an example, who run an organization into the ground because everyone else is an outsider to them.

This city could have done far better but it hasn't because the local leadership has rested on its laurels for decades, until nothing is left.

[formercalifornian]

Originally Posted by Ohioan58

Dayton (as well as some parts of Cincinnati) is the only place I've lived where someone will match your speed to keep you from moving onto a freeway.

Oh, jeez! I remember that about Dayton, particularly on the highways through town. On the flip-side, some of the best driving I've ever seen involved drivers leaving WPAFB Area B via SR-444. It was like participating in a ballet.

[wrightflyer]

Originally Posted by formercalifornian

On the flip-side, some of the best driving I've ever seen involved drivers leaving WPAFB Area B via SR-444. It was like participating in a ballet.

But that could be explained away as many of those drivers come from someplace outside Southwest Ohio.

[Ohioan58]

^ Absolutely true. Plus, the traffic there is comprised of highly disciplined AF types.

[Zidentia]

Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81

That's because LaRosa's is crap! Sauce is too damn sweet. Too much cheese, which is rubbery to boot. Yick.


Huge variety, knowledgeable staff, pleasant shopping experience. What more do you need?

I always thought it tasted like spaghetti sauce. I agree the cheese is rubbery. Cassannos is the best thin crust I have ever had and I had a lot of Pizza (trust me on this). I understand it took a dive but is coming back.