[masssachoicetts]

Originally Posted by synchem

Bob what is your ultimate point? Are you expecting NYC to not exist in the near future?

His point is pretty obvious. Basically that CT should diversify its economy and strengthen around its many small/medium cities (Hartford, New Haven, New London, Bridgeport, Stamford, Danbury and Norwalk) to become less reliant on NYC. In recent years the share of NJ'yans commuting to NYC dipped below 6% of the workforce. I think its about 450k people now, compared to like 600k in 2000, while overall job growth in NJ has exploded and NJ has pretty much separated from NYC in a lot of ways outside Jersey City, Hoboken, Harrison, Central Newark, Bayonne, Weehawken and Fort Lee.

Therefore, his point is clearly... CT should work on creating better jobs in state.

Pros and cons to that.. but I think NJ has done an exceptionally well job at separating away from NYC. CT is on its way, I think 10-15 years behind NJ in that regard, but over time, I hope more businesses and workers will chose to work AND live in CT.

I would personally like higher job growth in the Hartford area. But Hartford is more tied to Boston over NYC, and there is still no direct link between the two. That makes it hard for more economic growth.

[synchem]

Originally Posted by masssachoicetts

His point is pretty obvious. Basically that CT should diversify its economy and strengthen around its many small/medium cities (Hartford, New Haven, New London, Bridgeport, Stamford, Danbury and Norwalk) to become less reliant on NYC. In recent years the share of NJ'yans commuting to NYC dipped below 6% of the workforce. I think its about 450k people now, compared to like 600k in 2000, while overall job growth in NJ has exploded and NJ has pretty much separated from NYC in a lot of ways outside Jersey City, Hoboken, Harrison, Central Newark, Bayonne, Weehawken and Fort Lee.

Therefore, his point is clearly... CT should work on creating better jobs in state.

Pros and cons to that.. but I think NJ has done an exceptionally well job at separating away from NYC. CT is on its way, I think 10-15 years behind NJ in that regard, but over time, I hope more businesses and workers will chose to work AND live in CT.

I would personally like higher job growth in the Hartford area. But Hartford is more tied to Boston over NYC, and there is still no direct link between the two. That makes it hard for more economic growth.

Of course CT should improve it's economy around it's other cities. It honestly has nothing do with bringing up NYC all the time. The CT-NYC dynamic is always going to be there.

I don't think Hartford is tied to any other metro in terms of the jobs it provides.

[masssachoicetts]

Originally Posted by synchem

Of course CT should improve it's economy around it's other cities. It honestly has nothing do with bringing up NYC all the time. The CT-NYC dynamic is always going to be there.

I don't think Hartford is tied to any other metro in terms of the jobs it provides.

It isnt, but Hartford could greatly benefit from a link between Boston and Hartford. Boston's financial services market and Hartford's insurance market go hand in hand a lot of ways. Also a few CEOs of company's in Hartford, live in Boston. I actually know one personally that makes the trip 3x a week. Anecdotal? Sure. But regional connections between Hartford and Greater New England would be so beneficial.

[Beeker2211]

RE: RPA Study

Great article, but it seems to dance right up to but again buries the lede of CT's place in the region and it's particular conditions and needs. Which is I guess fine for this report because that isn't it's main thrust (NYC and it's Labor/Cultural Shed). But it does provide the data I've been harping about for years in a pretty clear way.

The point is that CT isn't powered, or even really buoyed, by NYC's economic engine. Access to Midtown is very lucrative for a select few that make super high wages but as a general destination cultural or economic is a bit of a myth in SW CT unlike LI, Lower Hudson, and Northern NJ where it literally is the rise and fall of their region. In my wanderings and just talking to people inside the county the belief that SW CT is dominated by commuting into Manhattan, and utter shock when I inform them it's less than 10% of FFC workforce... with many at the capped out $175k desk jobs.

This affects housing policy and most important transit policy, and why CTRail should be taking on a much more forward role in transit planning and vision internally. I know conditions have changed with the conductor/engineer shortage but the plan to decrease trainset couplets to increase frequency to close to 15/17min headways on the main line NHL a few years ago is now a non-starter with MTA but it's exactly what the CT side needs. The MTA connection to Penn to free up bays for LIRR at both stations is also directly at odds with general CT transit needs, but only a few voices are heard on that with none coming from top brass in the state.

EDIT: I just want to clarify I'm actually not opposed to the MNRR connection to Penn, just the way it's being presented as a win-win-win and would be a boon for CT and Northern Westchester. I think I've posted the studies before 2019 so I'll look for them but the projected daily boarding for bi-directional MNRR users for Penn would be less than 5k, mostly from South Westchester. LIRR however would be gaining an entire foothold in Midtown where it hasn't had before in earnest at like 120k boarding with GCTM and increases it's boarding rate at Penn by a good number. Which would be incredible, don't get me wrong. But with MTA's insistence on through trains for nearly every ride you can easily see where this becomes an issue for existing CT ridership and a lack of willpower for New Haven to Mid Westchester termination trains.

[Beeker2211]

Originally Posted by masssachoicetts

It isnt, but Hartford could greatly benefit from a link between Boston and Hartford. Boston's financial services market and Hartford's insurance market go hand in hand a lot of ways. Also a few CEOs of company's in Hartford, live in Boston. I actually know one personally that makes the trip 3x a week. Anecdotal? Sure. But regional connections between Hartford and Greater New England would be so beneficial.

That direct link would help lower CT as well. But to that effect a regional mid-state east/west connector to even "just" Providence would really be a game changer in the whole state, as well as RI and even outside the 128 in Mass if done right.

[masssachoicetts]

Originally Posted by Beeker2211

That direct link would help lower CT as well. But to that effect a regional mid-state east/west connector to even "just" Providence would really be a game changer in the whole state, as well as RI and even outside the 128 in Mass if done right.

Agreed. Providence is also a must.

Would love Amtrak to facilitate a New Haven-Hartford-Springfield-Worcester-Boston line.

[SteveM85]

Originally Posted by masssachoicetts

His point is pretty obvious. Basically that CT should diversify its economy and strengthen around its many small/medium cities (Hartford, New Haven, New London, Bridgeport, Stamford, Danbury and Norwalk) to become less reliant on NYC.

It already is like this. CT's job market and workforce is very diverse. CT isn't THAT reliant on NYC, let's calm down on that a bit.

[Beeker2211]

Originally Posted by masssachoicetts

Agreed. Providence is also a must.

Would love Amtrak to facilitate a New Haven-Hartford-Springfield-Worcester-Boston line.

MassDOT is actually sort of on this already. Currently planned as only a single departure per day but it's a start.

I'm desperately trying to find the feasibility study that would've reopened the Southeast to Hartford Line back up to regular passenger rail that came out a few years ago but if they could do that it'll give a much needed alternative to 84 and 34 as well as give Danbury and Waterbury a good chance to become better regional centres. IIRC the low end baseline estimate (albeit minus upgrade issues) of possible daily ridership was in the 10s of thousands... about the same as SLE and just under HL. Although IIRC that estimate was dependent on Waterbury and Danbury Line Upgrades. Google changed their algo again so finding old studies is much more annoying than it was even a year ago haha.

There's a lot of interconnections intrastate that gets ignored or brushed off as pie in the sky but looking at the cost estimates I just don't get the lack of will.

[masssachoicetts]

Originally Posted by SteveM85

It already is like this. CT's job market and workforce is very diverse. CT isn't THAT reliant on NYC, let's calm down on that a bit.

You dont have to tell me that. I was putting Bobs point in laymans terms.

[SteveM85]

Originally Posted by masssachoicetts

You dont have to tell me that. I was putting Bobs point in laymans terms.

Right, didn't mean you specifically.
A part of CT just happens to be geographically positioned to take advantage of NYC for jobs. I don't see that as a sole or huge factor of success for the state. It's in addition to, an added bonus, a tack on. It's a "nice to have", you don't turn it down.