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Many would pass a class at any standard, they are the ones who go on to a 4 year and beyond. It's really no different than any freshman class where a % fail out their first semister, there are just MORE people not cutting it since it's open enrollment. Knocking out low level GE's at a CC doesn't hurt anyone, it sure doesn't hurt the HS kids who take them concurrently.
Since Gatornation has a problem with statistics allow to provide a few,
This would be from my CC, although not the program I am in,
The nursing associate degree graduates of the Connecticut Community Colleges take the same examination for RN licensure as baccalaureate-level graduates and enjoy similar or higher pass rates. According to current licensure statistics, the 2008 Connecticut Community College nursing graduates averaged a 93% success rate on the NCLEX-RN, above the national average of 87%. http://www.commnet.edu/doc/News/NursingNws%20Rel-7-30-09.pdf (http://http://www.commnet.edu/doc/News/NursingNws%20Rel-7-30-09.pdf - broken link)
MA,NV,NK Respiratory Care 95% 92% 100% 93% 100%
pass rates for the respiratory therapy exam given by national board of respiratory care from 98-2002, NV is the CC I attend, the other two are for other CC in CT. This the same test that students from all schools must take to become a respiratory therapist. http://www.commnet.edu/planning/assessment/DHE/DHE2004.pdf (broken link)
What I am trying to get at, is that CC programs are accredited the same as a 4- year school, and to get a license in a specialty, they are required to take the same tests. The second link also has a section on who is accredited by whom.
You can not just focus on who gets into a school, but look at their pass rates on national examinations. Yes CC take all students, but their pass rates speak for themselves.
Additionally statistics show that there are many who enter a CC for reasons other than going for a B.A. or B.S., many students enter for certification programs, or just to take classes because they like to learn. Yes in many of the general ed classes there is a wide mix of students, some who are not ready for college, some who are at the top of the class, and many in the middle, but by the time they move into an actual program those at the bottom are weeded out. Not much different from a 4-year school when students drop out or transfer to an easier school.
Last edited by RebeccaLeigh; 12-09-2011 at 07:29 PM..
Reason: additional comment
Well who said it did make them bad people or less productive members of society? Were we discussing that? I don't think so, until you brought it up.
It also doesn't mean the quality of the CC courses are lower. CCs admit anyone; no wonder the "average" GPA and ACT scores are lower. The average doesn't have much to do with any individual student, especially in a sitation with open enrollment, and some students taking vocational and certificate courses.
Tell me again what this nonsense about bad people and less productive members of society is all about? I'm curious as heck!
See post #323:
"Is this necessarily a bad thing? Think about what this is really commenting on. Is the "quality" (which, when used to refer to people, is pretty disgusting imo) of students at 4-yr schools declining? Or the quality of CC students ascending? Or was it ever much different to begin with?"
I already explained why I think many - not all - CC classes are easier. Intro STEM courses at 4-year universities are often graded on a curve. When everyone in the class is fairly smart, getting a good score is quite competitive. CC courses are either uncurved or curved against academically weaker competition.
I agree that referring to "quality" of people is disgusting. That's not the same as "bad" or "less productive" however.
I havent been following this conversation, but the excerpt there says the "quality of STUDENTS" not the quality of people. just because you're not a good student doesn't mean you're worthless as a person and i definitely dont think that statement was trying to imply the latter. Would you refer to the quality of doctors or the quality of teachers at a certain establishment?? Same thing
Quote:" Other than that,it doesn't matter where you attend college."
Not true. As a hiring manager at several fortune-50 high-tech companies, (and I hired many, many people), if the school you attended was not on the 'list' of schools acceptable to the company (and quite a few were 4-year degree programs, and most of the 2-year schools), you would not ever be granted an interview.
Quote:"We actually make more money than some 4 year college and university grads"
I can give you a specific example (my SO, in the nursing community), that I will wager that you would be off by more than a factor of 3, in terms of salary. Granted, a single data point only shows existence.
Since Gatornation has a problem with statistics allow to provide a few,
This would be from my CC, although not the program I am in,
The nursing associate degree graduates of the Connecticut Community Colleges take the same examination for RN licensure as baccalaureate-level graduates and enjoy similar or higher pass rates. According to current licensure statistics, the 2008 Connecticut Community College nursing graduates averaged a 93% success rate on the NCLEX-RN, above the national average of 87%. http://www.commnet.edu/doc/News/NursingNws%20Rel-7-30-09.pdf (http://http://www.commnet.edu/doc/News/NursingNws%20Rel-7-30-09.pdf - broken link)
MA,NV,NK Respiratory Care 95% 92% 100% 93% 100%
pass rates for the respiratory therapy exam given by national board of respiratory care from 98-2002, NV is the CC I attend, the other two are for other CC in CT. This the same test that students from all schools must take to become a respiratory therapist. http://www.commnet.edu/planning/assessment/DHE/DHE2004.pdf (broken link)
What I am trying to get at, is that CC programs are accredited the same as a 4- year school, and to get a license in a specialty, they are required to take the same tests. The second link also has a section on who is accredited by whom.
You can not just focus on who gets into a school, but look at their pass rates on national examinations. Yes CC take all students, but their pass rates speak for themselves.
Additionally statistics show that there are many who enter a CC for reasons other than going for a B.A. or B.S., many students enter for certification programs, or just to take classes because they like to learn. Yes in many of the general ed classes there is a wide mix of students, some who are not ready for college, some who are at the top of the class, and many in the middle, but by the time they move into an actual program those at the bottom are weeded out. Not much different from a 4-year school when students drop out or transfer to an easier school.
Great. Another person who uses a very specific example and tries to pass it off like it represents the majority.
Feel free to explain why the quality if student in Illinois is much lower at a CC. I'm sure you'll find similar data for Conn.
I actually like the role CC fill but what's next? Comparing the top CC to Ivy Universities?
Last edited by Gatornation; 12-09-2011 at 10:58 PM..
I havent been following this conversation, but the excerpt there says the "quality of STUDENTS" not the quality of people. just because you're not a good student doesn't mean you're worthless as a person and i definitely dont think that statement was trying to imply the latter. Would you refer to the quality of doctors or the quality of teachers at a certain establishment?? Same thing
Of course. People are talking about quality of student.
Great. Another person who uses a very specific example and tries to pass it off like it represents the majority.
Feel free to explain why the quality if student in Illinois is much lower at a CC. I'm sure you'll find similar data for Conn.
I actually like the role CC fill but what's next? Comparing the top CC to Ivy Universities?
The information that you provided states "The newly-released High School-to-College Success Report shows how Illinois public school graduates fared when they became freshmen at the state’s universities and community colleges. The ACT company tracked more than 90,000 students who graduated from public high schools between 2006 and 2008, and then enrolled full-time at an Illinois university or community college that fall. The data do not include students who went to a private college or out-of-state."
So the information you put up looks only at how IL public school students did in as freshman, which really says nothing about the quality of education at CC or public universities, but of the quality of the public high-schools. Not to mention it does not compare the the differences in the education given by CC and 4-year schools
Whereas the information I provided in my second link looks at multiple programs across all of Connecticuts community colleges, and their national pass rates.
You always give the same response when someone makes a point that disputes what you say, yet you have failed to back up your opinion with any real statistics.
Indeed, Walt Disney went to a community college. So did renowned corporate executive H. Ross Perot, transplant surgeon Daniel Hayes and NASA astronaut Eileen Collins. Nobel and Pulitzer Prize winners and several governors also graduated from junior colleges. In the spring of 2006, William D. Green, CEO of Accenture, wrote a column in Newsweek about how his time at Dean College, a two-year college near Boston, helped shape his career.
Nationally, 40 percent of all traditional-age college students start out at community college, according to the U.S. Department of Education. So let’s bust five of the most common myths about community colleges and let the truth speak for itself.
Last edited by toobusytoday; 12-10-2011 at 07:41 AM..
Reason: copyright - link and snippet please
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