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I teach Management classes in the Business Program at a large Community College as an Adjunct Professor as a second job in the evening. I have also taught full time students in the day time too.
Sometimes when I can't sleep I get philosophical about the thousands of students who have come through my classes in the last 15 years. Many are nice enough and many put in some effort but in general America is in serious trouble if these people are going to someday work in responsible positions in corporate America.
What hits me is how many of the Community College students just don't care, are lazy and not so bright. Many even in their 20s and 30s are incredibly naive about academics, organization and education. They also seem incredibly naive about what awaits them in the real world if they graduate.
Most of the students who come through my Management 101 class will take a handful of classes at the Community College and then drop out and then go into a number of dead end jobs for the rest of their life.
My situation is not unique. My fellow Professors report the quality of students are at an all time low and each year the group gets worse and worse. All in an era when we are facing incredible competition from Asia.
Tell me the students are better in a four year college!
It's a business, not a public service. Plus, everyone can't be a doctor or you will have Dr. Ahmed pumping your gas.
Studies have shown that people who could get into Harvard but don't are ultimately just as successful as people who do go to Harvard. So it really isn't about the school.
Where can we find the actual study? The article mentions those who got into Harvard but chose less prestigious schools. However, it does not mention how those who chose CC (if any) fared.
for what it is worth i used community college 4 times in my life. it was great.
when i was 47 i needed it to apply for a major promotion and jr college helped me get it.
btw i was a 4.0 student.
I teach Management classes in the Business Program at a large Community College as an Adjunct Professor as a second job in the evening. I have also taught full time students in the day time too.
Sometimes when I can't sleep I get philosophical about the thousands of students who have come through my classes in the last 15 years. Many are nice enough and many put in some effort but in general America is in serious trouble if these people are going to someday work in responsible positions in corporate America.
What hits me is how many of the Community College students just don't care, are lazy and not so bright. Many even in their 20s and 30s are incredibly naive about academics, organization and education. They also seem incredibly naive about what awaits them in the real world if they graduate.
Most of the students who come through my Management 101 class will take a handful of classes at the Community College and then drop out and then go into a number of dead end jobs for the rest of their life.
My situation is not unique. My fellow Professors report the quality of students are at an all time low and each year the group gets worse and worse. All in an era when we are facing incredible competition from Asia.
Tell me the students are better in a four year college!
Not everyone can be the chief, someone has to be the Indian.
To be blunt your statement is a display of the same naivete(sp?) which you criticize.
Yeah... I value education very highly and I actually attended a community college... which devastated my hopes of the American education system. I had ONE teacher that changed my life though... he taught chemistry and taught it well. I'm a chemistry minor because of him and his class. But other than that it's truly a huge joke... but then again, my classes at a university were not much better... so... super terrifying, right?
Where can we find the actual study? The article mentions those who got into Harvard but chose less prestigious schools. However, it does not mention how those who chose CC (if any) fared.
I spent three years writing for my school's student newspaper. In particular, the Opinion section. Since it is opinion, there is leniency placed on sourcing the information. In fact, the article could have been completely made up and the editors would not be the wiser (since there is less-to-no emphasis on fact checking the opinions).
But, you can just send the author an email and ask.
I can see golfgal's point of view. My friend took accounting classes at a IL community college but a lot of them did not transfer into her accounting major at a 4 year college. They counted towards her electives, but she had to take almost the same accounting/business classes again. Granted, this wasn't a public school. I have a classmate who took a photo class in community college. at that time, it was just for fun, but when she enrolled in a photography major, they didn't count that class towards her major, only towards her elective b/c they said not all schools teach photography in the same manner.
It would be great if basic gen classes from community colleges could transfer anywhere, to a public 4 year, a private 4 year, or even to a private 4 year specialty school like art or tech. I know the biology course I took at a CC didn't count towards my pre-veterinary major at the first private school I went to. If you know for an absolute, 100% fact what school you want to go to after taking classes at a community college, then you can speak w/ an advisor at both schools to make sure classes will transfer. But if you're just going to a CC to take gen eds without really knowing where you're going next, that can be a problem. You could start at a CC thinking you're going to transfer into state school, only to change your mind or get a better offer from a private 4 year. I know my school, a private art school, will take some transfer credits towards gen ed, but not a lot and non towards the major itself. That a unique problem w/ my school b/c you start out taking classes in your major the very first semester and transferring in from a CC after 2 years could put you behind in your major. I know transfer students who, despite taking the max of 18 credits, take more than 2 years to finish their major. unless, of course, you take summer classes, but then most financial aid doesn't cover summer so that's an out-of-pocket expense that could be avoided if you can get enough fin aid to just start out at the 4 year school.
Honestly, when it comes to community colleges, there are so many mixed messages that it becomes an undesirable choice. You have people like the OP and others who downright look down on CC students and there is still that stigma to overcome. You have the difficulties in transferring credits, especially if you want to go to a private school or, god forbid, out of state. many people worry about finding a network if they aren't on campus all four years, some opportunities are off limits if you transfer in your junior year (e.g., leadership positions in extracurricular groups that may require that you be part of that group for a minimum of 1 year and before you can run and then serve a full year afterward). I can see why many choose not to go this route.
I think it's a better idea to take CC classes concurrently w/ classes at a 4 year school. my school allows this up to a point (same transfer rules apply) and I know a lot of people have done this, including me (e.g., take the history gen ed classes at a CC while enrolled at a 4 year). This may depend on how flexible the school is in terms of when you can take classes towards your gen ed since using this method, you could finish your gen eds before becoming a junior. I didn't even start doing my gen eds until the spring semester of my sophomore year and by then, I qualified for in state tuition at the CC and earned enough scholarship money to cover the costs at two schools.
Well, if you read all the posts about the states that accept CC courses at public colleges in their state, you will find that vocational courses, remedial courses, and personal fulfilment type courses are not on their lists of courses the public colleges accept. That would take care of all of your examples except the biology course, and you were talking about trying to transfer to a private college.
Where can we find the actual study? The article mentions those who got into Harvard but chose less prestigious schools. However, it does not mention how those who chose CC (if any) fared.
Since you agree... I'll ask you the same question....
I don't know which degrees are useless.... but do you honestly think that a BA in History from Harvard would not be gainfully employed?
Sorry, just now revisiting the thread. I can't speak to that, but I do work with two other nursing assistants who are recently graduated with BAs in English and Psychology. They are now going back to school for an RN because they can't use their degrees for anything. Sure, there are teaching jobs, which are few and far between these days with so much competition from others with similar degrees, but otherwise...
I don't know which degrees are useless.... but do you honestly think that a BA in History from Harvard would not be gainfully employed?
Sorry, just now revisiting the thread. I can't speak to that, but I do work with two other nursing assistants who are recently graduated with BAs in English and Psychology. They are now going back to school for an RN because they can't use their degrees for anything. Sure, there are teaching jobs, which are few and far between these days with so much competition from others with similar degrees, but otherwise...
English and Psychology are great degrees for undergrad...if you want to go on to some kind of grad school. Alone, they aren't going to get you a job. I think that is what people seem to forget. Degrees like those are stepping stones to other things. Several MD friends have English degrees for their undergrad work...but they also took the science and math classes needed to score well on the MCAT and got into medical school. Around here, without a minor in Secondary Education, they would not be able to teach.
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