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Where can we find the actual study? The article mentions those who got into Harvard but chose less prestigious schools. However, it does not mention how those who chose CC (if any) fared.
Well, if you read all the posts about the states that accept CC courses at public colleges in their state, you will find that vocational courses, remedial courses, and personal fulfilment type courses are not on their lists of courses the public colleges accept. That would take care of all of your examples except the biology course, and you were talking about trying to transfer to a private college.
my point was, it shouldn't matter if one is transferring to a private 4 year college or not. That's one reason why I can see many people passing up CC. Once you start paying to take classes there, you basically have no choice but to go to a local public university. even if, upon boosting your GPA, a private college offers you an amazing financial aid package that would trump the fin aid you'd get at a public school, even if you have a change of heart and want to pursue a major not offered by your local public university, even if, for whatever reason, you want to go to a different state, no matter the reason, you don't have any options besides the local public school, unless you want that money to go down the drain. In some cases, you'd almost be better off not going to a CC at all. Credits don't always transfer over and many, many, many people have lost money when credits from CCs-and other schools-don't transfer over. Again, I can see why people would want to avoid that process altogether.
It just always amuses me when people practically berate those who chose not to go the CC route as being wasteful and stupid (speaking generally) when that option isn't desirable for a variety of reasons.
my point was, it shouldn't matter if one is transferring to a private 4 year college or not. That's one reason why I can see many people passing up CC. Once you start paying to take classes there, you basically have no choice but to go to a local public university. even if, upon boosting your GPA, a private college offers you an amazing financial aid package that would trump the fin aid you'd get at a public school, even if you have a change of heart and want to pursue a major not offered by your local public university, even if, for whatever reason, you want to go to a different state, no matter the reason, you don't have any options besides the local public school, unless you want that money to go down the drain. In some cases, you'd almost be better off not going to a CC at all. Credits don't always transfer over and many, many, many people have lost money when credits from CCs-and other schools-don't transfer over. Again, I can see why people would want to avoid that process altogether.
It just always amuses me when people practically berate those who chose not to go the CC route as being wasteful and stupid (speaking generally) when that option isn't desirable for a variety of reasons.
From taking a few classes while bouncing around on active duty...
It just always amuses me when people practically berate those who chose not to go the CC route as being wasteful and stupid (speaking generally) when that option isn't desirable for a variety of reasons.
Uh, 'scuse me? I have not done the above. I did not go to a CC, nor did my spouse or kids.
It's an option. It's probably a better option for someone who was NOT a stellar HS student, rather than for one who thnks s/he can't afford college, b/c s/he hasn't looked into financial aid at private colleges. My niece did not get into the U of OK as an in-state students b/c there was a huge disconnect between her her SATs (great) and her grades (poor). She did not go to CC but to a local public college which had a 98% acceptance rate for a year then transferred to OU. Another option for her was the CC. Her grades from the first college transferred to OU. She eventually got her degree.
Going the CC route does take some careful planning.
I can see golfgal's point of view. My friend took accounting classes at a IL community college but a lot of them did not transfer into her accounting major at a 4 year college. They counted towards her electives, but she had to take almost the same accounting/business classes again. Granted, this wasn't a public school. I have a classmate who took a photo class in community college. at that time, it was just for fun, but when she enrolled in a photography major, they didn't count that class towards her major, only towards her elective b/c they said not all schools teach photography in the same manner.
It would be great if basic gen classes from community colleges could transfer anywhere, to a public 4 year, a private 4 year, or even to a private 4 year specialty school like art or tech. I know the biology course I took at a CC didn't count towards my pre-veterinary major at the first private school I went to. If you know for an absolute, 100% fact what school you want to go to after taking classes at a community college, then you can speak w/ an advisor at both schools to make sure classes will transfer. But if you're just going to a CC to take gen eds without really knowing where you're going next, that can be a problem. You could start at a CC thinking you're going to transfer into state school, only to change your mind or get a better offer from a private 4 year. I know my school, a private art school, will take some transfer credits towards gen ed, but not a lot and non towards the major itself. That a unique problem w/ my school b/c you start out taking classes in your major the very first semester and transferring in from a CC after 2 years could put you behind in your major. I know transfer students who, despite taking the max of 18 credits, take more than 2 years to finish their major. unless, of course, you take summer classes, but then most financial aid doesn't cover summer so that's an out-of-pocket expense that could be avoided if you can get enough fin aid to just start out at the 4 year school.
Honestly, when it comes to community colleges, there are so many mixed messages that it becomes an undesirable choice. You have people like the OP and others who downright look down on CC students and there is still that stigma to overcome. You have the difficulties in transferring credits, especially if you want to go to a private school or, god forbid, out of state. many people worry about finding a network if they aren't on campus all four years, some opportunities are off limits if you transfer in your junior year (e.g., leadership positions in extracurricular groups that may require that you be part of that group for a minimum of 1 year and before you can run and then serve a full year afterward). I can see why many choose not to go this route.
I think it's a better idea to take CC classes concurrently w/ classes at a 4 year school. my school allows this up to a point (same transfer rules apply) and I know a lot of people have done this, including me (e.g., take the history gen ed classes at a CC while enrolled at a 4 year). This may depend on how flexible the school is in terms of when you can take classes towards your gen ed since using this method, you could finish your gen eds before becoming a junior. I didn't even start doing my gen eds until the spring semester of my sophomore year and by then, I qualified for in state tuition at the CC and earned enough scholarship money to cover the costs at two schools.
There are plenty of poor private schools out there. You use the term like all of them are of quality.
Hmm, I wonder about that. You think Chem 101 or Calculus I, II, and III is any easier at CC than it is at $20K/year U? Other than perhaps a longer semester (18 weeks or so) paces things a little more vs quarters or 16 week semesters but the material is about the same. Same books. The first two years at a U are about the same as the courses at a CC anyway except for maybe engineering and some other more challenging majors.
I think a lot of kids who get two years out of the way at a CC are smarter than kids who spend $40K at a U. When the U kids get out, many are in deep debt vs the CC/State U kids who get owing a lot less or nothing and can immediately start investing instead of paying off the $40K they spent taking generic US History or PE or a bunch of expensive electives.
I can't speak to chemistry issues, but it would not surprise me if that were literally true. I think with CC in general, the quality varies quite sharply.
Uh, 'scuse me? I have not done the above. I did not go to a CC, nor did my spouse or kids.
It's an option. It's probably a better option for someone who was NOT a stellar HS student, rather than for one who thnks s/he can't afford college, b/c s/he hasn't looked into financial aid at private colleges. My niece did not get into the U of OK as an in-state students b/c there was a huge disconnect between her her SATs (great) and her grades (poor). She did not go to CC but to a local public college which had a 98% acceptance rate for a year then transferred to OU. Another option for her was the CC. Her grades from the first college transferred to OU. She eventually got her degree.
Going the CC route does take some careful planning.
As mentioned, I was speaking generally, not about specific responses in this thread. For example, it's a common argument whenever the topic of how much people have spent on a BA comes up ("well, why did they go to some expense private school and spend $80K and they could have gone to a CC for the first two years then transferred").
I agree, it does involve careful planning, but if done right, all the better b/c many people do save money. like all things education related, it's not an option for all
Hmm, I wonder about that. You think Chem 101 or Calculus I, II, and III is any easier at CC than it is at $20K/year U? Other than perhaps a longer semester (18 weeks or so) paces things a little more vs quarters or 16 week semesters but the material is about the same. Same books. The first two years at a U are about the same as the courses at a CC anyway except for maybe engineering and some other more challenging majors.
I think a lot of kids who get two years out of the way at a CC are smarter than kids who spend $40K at a U. When the U kids get out, many are in deep debt vs the CC/State U kids who get owing a lot less or nothing and can immediately start investing instead of paying off the $40K they spent taking generic US History or PE or a bunch of expensive electives.
Most likely, yes. It is taught at a slower pace, there is more time spent on each chapter, more in-class time for homework and teacher assistance. In a 4 year school, much of this is expected to be done outside of class, the pace is faster, they will cover more material and there is a general expectation they you know this information or can figure it out easier on your own. Much like the difference between a properly taught AP class and a general class in high school.
Hmm, I wonder about that. You think Chem 101 or Calculus I, II, and III is any easier at CC than it is at $20K/year U? Other than perhaps a longer semester (18 weeks or so) paces things a little more vs quarters or 16 week semesters but the material is about the same. Same books. The first two years at a U are about the same as the courses at a CC anyway except for maybe engineering and some other more challenging majors.
Yes, I do. Most of those intro courses are graded on a curve at major research universities. Brighter classmates = harsher curve.
At CC, there is either no curve or the curve is easier.
Even then they aren't the best students. The better students that go into these programs attend 4 year schools and get a degree.
Workaholic--I agree. My husband and I did some volunteer work at a local community college. They were asking business people from the area to come in and do mock interviews with students that were near the end of their programs. We were both just in shock how unprepared they were. I was actually hoping to find an office manager out of the deal but my then 15 year old high school sophomores were better candidates for the job. These people-and I can't even call them kids because some of them were older then I am--couldn't string a coherent sentence together, they couldn't speak to their job experience, training for the jobs, NO eye contact in the interview. I cut the one kid a little slack as he was only 19 and his work experience was 6 years at McDonalds but after that .
I'm sorry, but I get so frustrated when people paint a broad brush of who goes to a community college. I went to Fordham University and graduated in three years with a B.A. I now work for a very large and well respected Insurance company, one that has very high standards.
I am now back in school and choose a community college, I have had classes in my C.C. that are harder than ones I took at Fordham. The C.C. I am attending is considered to have some of the best, if not the best medical programs in my state. Student that graduate from our medical programs are consistently hired over students in 4-year programs. Very few people make it through our programs. Most of the students in my program are returning to school for a change of career.
Yes there are students who are not as smart as others, but to act as if all community college students are the same is ridiculous and shows your ignorance.
Just a side note my former anatomy teacher is on the board for Yale's medical school, and taught our class the same way he would teach at a 4-year school.
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