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What's so smart about paying more money to hang the same degree on your wall? In California, the original intent was that everyone attend CC for the first two years... Then U.C and C.S.U realized they could make money by having students attend their schools for four years.
It can be smart because not all degrees are equal. The quality and rigor of the institution makes a BIG difference in your post-graduate job prospects. Obviously, there are varying degrees of this, and everyone has to make their own judgment as to how much cost to take on for their desired return in their future field.
It can be smart because not all degrees are equal. The quality and rigor of the institution makes a BIG difference in your post-graduate job prospects. Obviously, there are varying degrees of this, and everyone has to make their own judgment as to how much cost to take on for their desired return in their future field.
You miss the point. If I go to a CC for two years and then transfer to UC Berkeley, I get the same degree just as if I had attended Berkeley for all four years.
People go to CC because they're not smart or motivated enough to get into a good university. The excuse about going to CC to save money is just an excuse to hide this embarassing reality . CC's have no admissions standards, they have to accept anyone with a pulse, and it shows in their student body.
I once knew a CC student, and she was actually among the top students in her math class. One time I looked at her math midterm (which she had one of the highest scores and was thrilled about this), I tried not to laugh. It was the same rigor as Calculus I took in 11th grade. Those students wouldn't survive even one quarter at a top university. They're marginal students
Not necessarily true... I was accepted into 4 universities but decided to go to my local CC instead. My parents made too much for me to qualify for any grants and my scholarships would have run out less than a year into my studies. My parents all but kicked me out when I turned 18 and offered me no help with college. I simply couldn't afford my living expenses plus tuition. I did hold a full time job and Put myself through college with zero debt.
I'm extremely happy with my decision to attend CC first.
The whole credit accepting thing for AP/IB/CC classes is a real role of the dice when one is a HS student. You need to take the hardest classes you can do well in but since one doesn't know what school they will be accepted to until (usually) the second half of senior year, it's not a given that any of those classes will be accepted. My youngest son's NON-elite private College would not accept less then 4's and 5's for AP classes and would not even take all of his classes. They said they would take his CS classes from both a CC and one from Penn State, but that isn't a direct replacement.
I would never suggest taking CC classes and expect them to transfer automatically. Same with AP or IB classes. BUT, if one is already in a college and just needs one or two classes to fulfill a gen ed credit, it's also fairly common for the four year college to okay a local CC class for replacement.
This is why we are not letting dd#2 take AP classes. We're opting to have her take the classes at the local CC instead. That way, all she has to do is pass to get credit no matter where she goes. Doing this, she will have about 18 college credits when she graduates from high school with no roll of the dice. All we have to do is make sure she takes the right level to transfer. That's 18 credits I don't have to pay for (the high school picks up the bill) and she will have had the experience of taking real college classes, which will look good on her resume.
You do have to watch which classes transfer but some are givens like calc I, II and III. They're pretty much part of any major. You have to watch your liberal arts courses. I took psychology and Abnormal psychology as electives at the CC but eneded up transferring to a school that required two religion courses so even though I got credit for my psychology courses, I still had to take liberal arts courses when I transferred. (not that it has anything to do with this debate but those were two of the best courses I took in college. Comparative religion and religion in an age of science.)
Not necessarily true... I was accepted into 4 universities but decided to go to my local CC instead. My parents made too much for me to qualify for any grants and my scholarships would have run out less than a year into my studies. My parents all but kicked me out when I turned 18 and offered me no help with college. I simply couldn't afford my living expenses plus tuition. I did hold a full time job and Put myself through college with zero debt.
I'm extremely happy with my decision to attend CC first.
Same here, I went to CC and got an associates in liberal arts before transferring to the same 4 year college that I had planned on going as a senior. I did it because I had to put myself through college, and paid $800 a semester as opposed to $8,000 Every one of my credits transferred, and I actually liked my smaller classes at the CC much better than the stadium seating ones at my state college with professors I couldn't understand. The only thing I feel I really missed out on were the parties I got the same degree, for half the price, and my 36 year old self is very grateful to my 17 year old self for making that rational, mature, selfless decision. I don't know what's not smart or motivated about that.
This is why we are not letting dd#2 take AP classes. We're opting to have her take the classes at the local CC instead. That way, all she has to do is pass to get credit no matter where she goes. Doing this, she will have about 18 college credits when she graduates from high school with no roll of the dice. All we have to do is make sure she takes the right level to transfer. That's 18 credits I don't have to pay for (the high school picks up the bill) and she will have had the experience of taking real college classes, which will look good on her resume.
You do have to watch which classes transfer but some are givens like calc I, II and III. They're pretty much part of any major. You have to watch your liberal arts courses. I took psychology and Abnormal psychology as electives at the CC but eneded up transferring to a school that required two religion courses so even though I got credit for my psychology courses, I still had to take liberal arts courses when I transferred. (not that it has anything to do with this debate but those were two of the best courses I took in college. Comparative religion and religion in an age of science.)
Again, you DO have to be careful with this. Not all schools will accept CC credits. Also, many grad programs will NOT accept CC credits for courses in that field--if she wants to go to medical school, for example, having done her gen eds at a CC WILL hurt her chances of getting in...Student Doctor Network Forums | An educational community for students and doctors spanning all the health professions. just read here. Law schools, etc. are the same. We have had admissions counselors tell us flat out that they will NOT accept CC credits that students have taken for dual enrollment for any kind of credit or placement.
I disagree with the OP. I went to community college before transferring to a four year university. The quality of teaching at the community college level was far superior to the four year state school. i didn't go to a Clown U four year state college either. I transfered to a top ten four year school. The professors at the four year school were more interested in their research than teaching. In most hands on workshop classes, the professors at the four year school with disappear from two hours at a time. When I was in community college, the professors spent the whole of four hours teaching us the ins and outs of how to work specific technical programs.
Community colleges attract a more diverse array of people than most four year schools. Many people who attend community college are already working adults in their 30's and up. Because of this, there is no raging Animal House party crowd at most community colleges like there is at four year schools where thousands of mostly 18-24 year olds "live on campus" and binge-drink like seasoned alcoholics for 4-6 years.
Yes, many community college students are not college material and have no reason being in school. But that can be said about a huge percentage of college students in general.
Also, not all community college students are aiming to "work for the man" so to speak. Even the most prestigious degrees from the best colleges don't guarantee a job nowadays. For the last three years, there have been countless testimonial articles of underemployed Ivy-League grads waiting tables and flipping burgers.
Many people I went to community college with are actually more successful than people I know who went straight to a four year school at 18 years old. The problem is that most 18 year olds have no understanding of the real world, let alone the corporate world and what it will be like 4-6 years from now, and have no idea what they want out of life. The difference is that people who knew what they wanted out of community college got the most out of it. Successful people I went to community college with went on to found non-profit organizations and successful small businesses from the what they learned from a few good community college courses without going into excessive student loan debt for jobs that no longer exist in this continent.
No classes at the Community College I teach at have more than 40 students. Most are 20-25 students. A real plus, but few students appreciate the smaller classes and opportunity for more classroom involvement.
I disagree with the OP. I went to community college before transferring to a four year university. The quality of teaching at the community college level was far superior to the four year state school. i didn't go to a Clown U four year state college either. I transfered to a top ten four year school. The professors at the four year school were more interested in their research than teaching. In most hands on workshop classes, the professors at the four year school with disappear from two hours at a time. When I was in community college, the professors spent the whole of four hours teaching us the ins and outs of how to work specific technical programs.
This is why we are not letting dd#2 take AP classes. We're opting to have her take the classes at the local CC instead. That way, all she has to do is pass to get credit no matter where she goes. Doing this, she will have about 18 college credits when she graduates from high school with no roll of the dice. All we have to do is make sure she takes the right level to transfer. That's 18 credits I don't have to pay for (the high school picks up the bill) and she will have had the experience of taking real college classes, which will look good on her resume.
You do have to watch which classes transfer but some are givens like calc I, II and III. They're pretty much part of any major. You have to watch your liberal arts courses. I took psychology and Abnormal psychology as electives at the CC but ended up transferring to a school that required two religion courses so even though I got credit for my psychology courses, I still had to take liberal arts courses when I transferred. (not that it has anything to do with this debate but those were two of the best courses I took in college. Comparative religion and religion in an age of science.)
18 credits sounds like a perfect amount to start with - not enough to be considered a transfer student, but enough to get advanced standing for class sign-ups. The only problem with that scenario is that your daughter may be limited to using those credits at certain colleges. Our local CC's have agreements with some four year colleges but it's not a given that all colleges, even the public's, will take them. My suggestion would be to have her take the AP tests that match up with the CC classes to give her additional chances of using that knowledge.
My son had the potential of two college classes and five AP classes when he finished HS. Of those, only a couple of classes were able to be used at his college but we knew that when he started taking them in HS. Our strategy was for him to take the classes that he would do well at and challenge him and were taught by good teachers, not especially for college credit, although that was a consideration.
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I got the same degree, for half the price, and my 36 year old self is very grateful to my 17 year old self for making that rational, mature, selfless decision. I don't know what's not smart or motivated about that.
