Cleveland Development Discussions (Euclid, Solon, Brecksville: warehouses, Methodist, worker)

[216facts]

One other note. If you're an engineer making $100k or more, like most of them are, you're not taking the bus. Come on, if you're into 6 figures, you have a car, you probably have a nice car, and you probably want to drive it to justify the nice price you paid. Stands to reason?

I go to work every day in Solon and I see the people that use the bus, and what they have to go through to get to work. They're let off at Cochran, in the snow, ice and rain, then they walk the quarter mile to their place of employment - while in the snow, ice, rain. Either you can't afford a car, or you made a bad decision and the state says you shouldn't have a car. Nobody who works at the R+D facility in Brecksville is going to take the bus, unless the state has said: "You will not have a drivers license."

[bjimmy24]

^ if you are 20 or 30 something and want to live downtown, this is more likely. There are are a few of us reverse bus commuters down here now. I hope you might see more after sherwin moves. Sherwin stock is so high. Many people are cashing out now. The move will be another good time to retire. You might see some younger folks around soon. By no means am I saying we can have hundreds of people doing this, but hey, even just like 10 would be nice. You're right, as of now, I'd say under 10% of bus riders are white collar workers.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by 216facts

One other note. If you're an engineer making $100k or more, like most of them are, you're not taking the bus. Come on, if you're into 6 figures, you have a car, you probably have a nice car, and you probably want to drive it to justify the nice price you paid. Stands to reason?

I go to work every day in Solon and I see the people that use the bus, and what they have to go through to get to work. They're let off at Cochran, in the snow, ice and rain, then they walk the quarter mile to their place of employment - while in the snow, ice, rain. Either you can't afford a car, or you made a bad decision and the state says you shouldn't have a car. Nobody who works at the R+D facility in Brecksville is going to take the bus, unless the state has said: "You will not have a drivers license."

Being one of those engineers you describe, I completely agree. However, a bus commute between both facilities will be about as direct and simple as it gets and there will probably be a handful of people who will want do it on a daily basis. The terminus for the 77F used to be the actual VA facility at one point prior to the industrial park development near the site. If you work between the 2 facilities and live downtown, you will not need a car. What we really need is a light rail route between downtown and Summit County, but that's a whole other subject.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

The 77F will literally connect the front door of each facility. A car will be entirely optional in this regard. I'm not sure why people are wringing their hands over this. Lower Brecksville is a great location for something like this as it has far less expensive land available, is conveniently located along a major public transit line and also located along a direct Interstate connection. They decided on this because of the likely need for future expansion at the facility which is something much more easily accomplished at the south end of the county. They need to maximize their value per square foot, just like any business. R&D is overhead that takes up a ton of space. Unless the land is virtually free (it's not), it makes little sense to locate an R&D facility in an area where land value is in the area of millions of dollars per acre.

One factor likely is that SW can sell its 9 acres of prime river-front acreage and raise a significant amount of cash.


SW probably also ascertained that Brecksville in the long run would be a more attractive location for recruiting R&D employees than the downtown location. I've met a few R&D center employees who live in Mentor. Those employees may be forced to relocate if they don't look for alternative employment, but the commute to Brecksville is only 35 minutes from Mentor. It's a 25-minute commute from Rocky River or Lakewood, according to Google. My hunch is that the amount of time door-to-door might be 10 minutes additionally from those locations.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

^ if you are 20 or 30 something and want to live downtown, this is more likely. There are are a few of us reverse bus commuters down here now. I hope you might see more after sherwin moves. Sherwin stock is so high. Many people are cashing out now. The move will be another good time to retire. You might see some younger folks around soon. By no means am I saying we can have hundreds of people doing this, but hey, even just like 10 would be nice. You're right, as of now, I'd say under 10% of bus riders are white collar workers.

Podcasts and other digital pursuits should make bus commuting much more enjoyable and useful than in my bus days four decades ago.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by WRnative

One factor likely is that SW can sell its 9 acres of prime river-front acreage and raise a significant amount of cash.


SW probably also ascertained that Brecksville in the long run would be a more attractive location for recruiting R&D employees than the downtown location. I've met a few R&D center employees who live in Mentor. Those employees may be forced to relocate if they don't look for alternative employment, but the commute to Brecksville is only 35 minutes from Mentor. It's a 25-minute commute from Rocky River or Lakewood, according to Google. My hunch is that the amount of time door-to-door might be 10 minutes additionally from those locations.

Heading south into and north out of Brecksville at the respective morning/afternoon rush hours is exactly what you want to be doing. Rocky River will be about 30 minutes on most days. That's my usual daily commute, for the most part.

[TheProf]

It's all well and good that people like Brecksville -- it's nice, clean and safe and next to the CVNP. It's also cool that, since posters here have cars, traveling to the R&D facility would be easy for them. Yes it's on the 77F, but at the end of a long run with mostly hourly service. Sure there will be, probably, mostly professionals working there. But there will also be maintenance workers, IT folks and lower level chemists and the like who won't be rich and may not have cars -- or if forced to get one, will hurt their family budget...

I still maintain that Cleveland's continually locating new major employment centers way off the grid such as the planned R&D, further enhances our sprawl and is not healthy for region's economy. Why wasn't our highly-touted, coming on line Opportunity Corridor seriously considered by SHW and local leaders?. It's not downtown, but will be served by 3 rapid transit lines, several buses and the Opportunity Corridor roadway, itself, which connects directly to the freeway network. This area is wide open, cheap, accessible and screaming for light industry. So far, only the soon-to-relocate police HQ is leaning towards the OC...

Consider St. Louis where they are developing a dense light industry corridor in an industrial wasteland similar to our so-called Forgotten Triangle that the OC will serve. This St. Louis corridor is similarly served by a freeway and the City's Light Rail rapid line -- in fact, they recently opened a new rail station to serve these intelligence/computer businesses, appropriately named: Cortex.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

Being one of those engineers you describe, I completely agree. However, a bus commute between both facilities will be about as direct and simple as it gets and there will probably be a handful of people who will want do it on a daily basis. The terminus for the 77F used to be the actual VA facility at one point prior to the industrial park development near the site. If you work between the 2 facilities and live downtown, you will not need a car. What we really need is a light rail route between downtown and Summit County, but that's a whole other subject.

For sure. If you dont need a car, I dont know why you'd get one. I dont feel like it would improve my life at all, since the bus I take is so fast and dependable and goes exactly where I need it to go. Give yourself a $10k raise by just using the rta.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by TheProf

It's all well and good that people like Brecksville -- it's nice, clean and safe and next to the CVNP. It's also cool that, since posters here have cars, traveling to the R&D facility would be easy for them. Yes it's on the 77F, but at the end of a long run with mostly hourly service. Sure there will be, probably, mostly professionals working there. But there will also be maintenance workers, IT folks and lower level chemists and the like who won't be rich and may not have cars -- or if forced to get one, will hurt their family budget...

I still maintain that Cleveland's continually locating new major employment centers way off the grid such as the planned R&D, further enhances our sprawl and is not healthy for region's economy. Why wasn't our highly-touted, coming on line Opportunity Corridor seriously considered by SHW and local leaders?. It's not downtown, but will be served by 3 rapid transit lines, several buses and the Opportunity Corridor roadway, itself, which connects directly to the freeway network. This area is wide open, cheap, accessible and screaming for light industry. So far, only the soon-to-relocate police HQ is leaning towards the OC...

Consider St. Louis where they are developing a dense light industry corridor in an industrial wasteland similar to our so-called Forgotten Triangle that the OC will serve. This St. Louis corridor is similarly served by a freeway and the City's Light Rail rapid line -- in fact, they recently opened a new rail station to serve these intelligence/computer businesses, appropriately named: Cortex.

Well i do not have a car. Also, the worker types you reference will absolutely take the bus there. this is the vast majority of people who ride the bus as is. Downtown is an easy transfer to make. I'd love to up the frequencies on all routes though.

Sherwin IS locating a major employment center in the city of Cleveland, accessible by just about every transit line in Cleveland. R&D makes sense with space. I'd rather see midtown and places like that fill in with residents, not more sprawling campuses that frankly deaden the area most of the time. It's an absolute ghost town around there. I dont know, but can you name any major r and d facility that locates itself in the city limits or downtown of any major city? What about the environmental concerns?

I also think the opportunity corridor was an ill conceived idea in the first place.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by 216facts

One other note. If you're an engineer making $100k or more, like most of them are, you're not taking the bus. Come on, if you're into 6 figures, you have a car, you probably have a nice car, and you probably want to drive it to justify the nice price you paid. Stands to reason?

I don't think you can project this sentiment on to all people who make enough money to easily afford a car.