Cleveland Development Discussions (Euclid, Green, Washington: square footage, correctional, avoid)

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by 216facts

2/3 is probably a lot to hope for - but you never know, if the downtown real estate market continues, it could happen.

No question, such optimism for downtown development success would have been unheard of even 10 years ago, let alone the God-awful 70s and 80s when developers and officials could barely come together to build nice diner. This new 'can-do' Cleveland is exciting to watch.

[TheProf]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I sure would love to see the Haslams et. al move forward with plans to dome First Energy Stadium. Lord knows I don't care for our football stadium to be on such prime developable land downtown, but at least development is happening around it, esp at North Coast Harbor -- I'm liking what I'm seeing even with what's there, now; and the future? My feeling is that, if we're going to have the stadium there, at least make it more useful with a dome -- it could have so many more uses, esp during the winter -- maybe we could wrest things like the Big 10 football championship from Indianapolis or land an NCAA Final 4, let alone some mega concerts (we are getting some outdoor ones in the summer, but not enough)...

... that said, flawed though it may be, you had to feel good about Cleveland's pro sports stadium situation when watching the Kansas City Chiefs' AFC championship game, yesterday... I know for years, some have praised KC's 70s/80s Arrowhead sports complex with the Chiefs' and (baseball) Royals stadiums together, but those overhead helicopter shots revealed a stadium surrounded by a sea of surface parking out in the middle of suburban nowhere... Not surprising given Kansas City's almost totally bus-only, mediocre mass transit network -- which is more the norm than the exception for comparable Midwestern cities.

Cleveland's 3 stadiums are right downtown and directly accessible to our rail rapid transit system, including a direct indoor connection to the Cavs Rocket Mortgage Fieldhouse -- really convenient given this weekend's snowstorm (too bad the Cavs had to lay a huge egg vs. the lowly Knicks in today's MLK afternoon game). It is an enviable arrangement for all American cities, east coast or otherwise.

[1watertiger]

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/...earby.html?m=1

[kpl1228]

Originally Posted by 1watertiger

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/...earby.html?m=1

This has needed to happen forever. Not sure about it being a tower, however. Never been thrilled with one of the tallest buildings in the city being a courthouse/jail combo.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by kpl1228

This has needed to happen forever. Not sure about it being a tower, however. Never been thrilled with one of the tallest buildings in the city being a courthouse/jail combo.

Especially one as ugly as the Justice Center. I've never seen a good looking jail.

My big question is why does the court house have to be in the center of downtown? To facilitate the amenities available to judges, lawyers and court house employees? Isn't it easier for judges and lawyers to travel than to transport prisoners (PERHAPS NOT)? Witnesses and others might be afforded free parking if a justice complex was built elsewhere in the city, as land would be cheaper. If needed, shuttles could be run from downtown Tower City and law firms to the new court house. The proceeds from selling the more valuable land under the current Justice Center could help offset the cost of the new court house.

Have we explored what has been done in other cities? The new Franklin County Courthouse is located on South High St., near I-70, but 0.7 miles from the Ohio Statehouse and the center of downtown, but a new Franklin County Corrections Center is in another location six miles away.

Franklin County Court of Common Pleas

https://radio.wosu.org/post/franklin...-jail#stream/0

https://www.dispatch.com/news/201905...tation-in-mind

Doesn't any city build new court houses adjacent to modern jails???

Cleveland itself would lose no economic viability if the court houses were moved from downtown, although downtown would be negatively impacted until the Justice Center site could be redeveloped. Cleveland actually may gain viability if the new court house triggered a rebirth of another district of the city. And another location for a new justice center, perhaps near I-90, could provide easier access for the entire county. And the onus wouldn't be on the county to build an attractive court house building, which likely wouldn't happen anyway. Any fans of the new county administration building?

Could the new corrections center be built near East 55 St., providing access to both the Healthline bus rapid and Blue/Green rail rapids, especially if a free trolley/shuttle operated between Euclid Ave., the new corrections center, and the rapid station. Perhaps visiting hours could be staggered to avoid rush hours and facilitate mass transit service.

Just thinking.

[1watertiger]

Yes judges, attorneys etc. want to be close to a new courthouse because most of their offices are downtown. A new courthouse tower downtown makes sense. And it would be cheaper to build and renovating the old justice center. The new jail is a different story and should not be located downtown. Maybe somewhere along the opportunity Corredor near where the new police headquarters will go?
My guess the old Justice Center then would be converted into more apartments

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by 1watertiger

My guess the old Justice Center then would be converted into more apartments

Who would want to live in that ugly building?

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by 1watertiger

My guess the old Justice Center then would be converted into more apartments

It would make sense to convert such a massive structure as the JC, including a 24-story tower, into apartments. But according to NEOtrans, Crains and others, JC's infrastructure is in poor condition (shocking for a less-than-50 year old building); so much so that the cost of an apt retrofit may be more than a teardown/rebuild. We'll have to see on this...

... to Andrew's point, yes the building currently is unattractive, but I seriously doubt new tenants would be moving into the same looking building... Consider other positive makeovers we've seen, most notably the upgrade from the ugly Bohn Court Hotel into the handsome Westin... I'm sure that would happen with any JC conversion if, again, it's physically viable enough to be rehabbed.

[tribecavsbrowns]

Originally Posted by TheProf

It would make sense to convert such a massive structure as the JC, including a 24-story tower, into apartments. But according to NEOtrans, Crains and others, JC's infrastructure is in poor condition (shocking for a less-than-50 year old building); so much so that the cost of an apt retrofit may be more than a teardown/rebuild. We'll have to see on this...

... to Andrew's point, yes the building currently is unattractive, but I seriously doubt new tenants would be moving into the same looking building... Consider other positive makeovers we've seen, most notably the upgrade from the ugly Bohn Court Hotel into the handsome Westin... I'm sure that would happen with any JC conversion if, again, it's physically viable enough to be rehabbed.

Bond Court Hotel. The name was a nod to E. 6th Street's former name, Bond Street.

You might be mixing the name up with Bohn Tower at E. 13th and Superior.

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by tribecavsbrowns

Bond Court Hotel. The name was a nod to E. 6th Street's former name, Bond Street.

You might be mixing the name up with Bohn Tower at E. 13th and Superior.

You're right, my bad.