Cleveland Development Discussions (Columbus, Lakewood, Cleveland Heights: airplane, bookstores, living room)

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by WRnative

The readily available free parking in the Van Aken District that you describe also is problematic for Shaker Square.

Parking is free in Shaker Square all day... you just have to find it. Primarily it behind the SE quadrant. Unfortunately of late, the tunnel/passage way to the Square has become dirty with garbage bins nearby (Coral strikes again). Of course many people want to head-in park in front of their SS establishment or along Shaker Blvd, both of which are metered during the day. On top of this, in recent years RTA's No. 11 bus lays over on Shaker. This, plus the ridiculous amount of valet spots around the square, greatly reduces front parking.

But the Square remains popular for a lot of people, many of whom walk (or Rapid) there, esp for the nice program of outdoor events during warm weather. I appreciate the younger POV of TribeTilIDie. I do think the brewpubs of VAD will be a hit -- and, more importantly, create a diversity of retail, esp inside the Market Place where its nice and warm these days and allows for a free flow to various venues and seating areas. But as I said, don't look for either district to become bar/brewpub central a la Ohio City or Tremont. The beauty in these different interesting mixed use districts in Cleveland -- there's someplace for everyone.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by TheProf

You raise an interesting point. Shaker Square (and its neighbor Larchmere) have long eschewed the bar/brew-pub/club hangout scene. West 25th/Market Square (Ohio City) they don't want... The Square has been content to appeal more to families, esp children, so the bar thing doesn't really mesh with this. This doesn't mean there are zero bars there. In fact, Zanzibar has a bar as do, I believe, a couple other of the sit-down restaurants there. Over on Larchmere there are a couple bars, Academy Tavern, Larchmere Tavern, and other restaurant/bar spots like Feliece's (nice outdoor bar setup in warm weather), Barroco and others.

Perhaps what I identified as "community minded" is more correctly categorized as "family oriented", as you noted.

There are quite a few restaurants with bars as you noted. I think there's a middle ground between that and W 25th/Downtown style entertainment districts. Maybe a sports bar or a novelty bar like Brew Nuts would fit the bill better since it doesn't 100% revolve around drinking.

I'm not interested in night life per se, but more so in having a "third place"

I think the craft place and brewery at VAD will do quite well and might serve that function in the community. I think the food hall is already doing it to an extent.

Originally Posted by TribeTilIDie

I have to disagree with the food court comment

I didn't mean it in a negative way or as a comment on the quality of food. VAD restaurants have more in common with Beachwood Mall than Shaker Square, at least for now. It's multiple low-priced restaurants sharing common seating, and you order by standing in line at the counter.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by TheProf

Parking is free in Shaker Square all day... you just have to find it. Primarily it behind the SE quadrant. Unfortunately of late, the tunnel/passage way to the Square has become dirty with garbage bins nearby (Coral strikes again). Of course many people want to head-in park in front of their SS establishment or along Shaker Blvd, both of which are metered during the day. On top of this, in recent years RTA's No. 11 bus lays over on Shaker. This, plus the ridiculous amount of valet spots around the square, greatly reduces front parking.

It's indicative of the parking problem at Shaker Square that I'm unable to find any web link describing current parking and parking fees at Shaker Square.

On my last visit to Shaker Square, my memory is that the northeast lot behind CVS (most convenient for visits to the Balaton) now was a pay lot during certain periods. Parking in any south lots to walk to the Balaton, Dewey's, etc., is a pain.

I also couldn't find any links describing parking at the Van Aken District, an amazing omission.

Home - The Van Aken District | Mixed-Use Real Estate in Shaker Heights, OH

[ferraris]

On the topic of Shaker Square and VAD, the North Union Farmer's Market announced that the winter markets will be moved from Shaker Square to VAD. This is because the indoor space they usually use in the winter, next to Dewey's Coffee, has been leased. The summer markets will remain at Shaker Square. VAD also held its own outdoor markets in 2018 from time to time as well.

This might be a win-win, depending on who has leased the Shaker Square space.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by WRnative

It's indicative of the parking problem at Shaker Square that I'm unable to find any web link describing current parking and parking fees at Shaker Square.

The "Map of Shaker Square" link includes the location of both free and paid parking, but no info on the price or hours of the paid parking.

On my last visit to Shaker Square, my memory is that the northeast lot behind CVS (most convenient for visits to the Balaton) now was a pay lot during certain periods. Parking in any south lots to walk to the Balaton, Dewey's, etc., is a pain.

The lot behind CVS does have some reserved CVS spots and some private parking for the Cormere building, but there are still free spots there.

I agree that parking on the wrong side of the square for your destination can be an annoyance. Hopefully the redesign of Shaker Square will include the north-south pedestrian path through the middle of the square.

I also couldn't find any links describing parking at the Van Aken District, an amazing omission.

The VAD has made some curious choices in its marketing. In addition to not mentioning the free and plentiful parking, they also barely mention the RTA access...it's not even prominently featured on the apartment page.

And from a physical standpoint, people passing by on Chagrin or Warrensville would barely know anything is there. That may be by design, if they are trying to make it "Shaker Heights' New Downtown" rather than "Cleveland's newest shopping center"

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by ferraris

The "Map of Shaker Square" link includes the location of both free and paid parking, but no info on the price or hours of the paid parking.


The VAD has made some curious choices in its marketing. In addition to not mentioning the free and plentiful parking, they also barely mention the RTA access...it's not even prominently featured on the apartment page.

Yeah, this really bugs me. Sadly it's not just a VAD thing, but a Cleveland thing. If you go to the websites of those nice new apartment and condo complexes in Little Italy built around the new Red Line station, several don't even mention the Rapid at all, instead touting their proximity to museums, schools ... and, of course, road access (many of these new complexes don't even mention the Rapid as a travel option)... In Cleveland it's become a fad in certain quarters to hate on transit as being dirty and dangerous and used, mainly by "them" not us... so it's best not to promote it. I'm guessing the attitude of the VAD developers is like: if our patrons can afford to live in or shop at our high-end establishment, why on earth would that take the Rapid? So even though these new buildings exist where they are and in their high-density design... because they are close to the Rapid!!!! So it's TOD, but let's not act like it's TOD, right? ... It's stupid and regressive and points to much of what is wrong in this class/race divided society, but it is what it is unfortunately.

Originally Posted by ferraris

And from a physical standpoint, people passing by on Chagrin or Warrensville would barely know anything is there. That may be by design, if they are trying to make it "Shaker Heights' New Downtown" rather than "Cleveland's newest shopping center"

It seems I recall a big Van Aken Market Place sign on the new building, but I could be wrong... I'm thinking the signage isn't installed yet because VAD is still not totally finished. I'm hoping that, once it is, signage and way-finding will be upgraded.

[Unicorn hunter]

Interesting about the race/class divide thing....not much of an issue back in the Seattle area....most people took transit...beat driving and looking/paying for parking. The train I took in from the burbs was packed to the gills on every run...I think they were up to 6 morning trains and 6 evening trains....busses, the same....standing room only...this was during commute times of course and into the city....so, if people do end up moving here from more expensive coastal cities, the whole commuting thing might not be such a big deal.

On a completely different topic, also wondering if anyone knows what is slated to go into the North Union building if the Farmers Market is departing?

[1watertiger]

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real...ans-apartments

https://www.cleveland.com/expo/life-...even-litt.html

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by 1watertiger

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real...ans-apartments

https://www.cleveland.com/expo/life-...even-litt.html

RTA in its effort to raise capital apparently desires to sell part of its right-of-way for residential housing construction near the West 25th Red Line station.

https://www.cleveland.com/expo/life-...even-litt.html

Reading the comments to this article, a point that struck me is concern about the noise that will permeate any building adjacent to a rail rapid line. Can construction standards include sufficient sound-proofing as to make these residential units tolerable for residents? Will this be a requirement?

Would a much larger pedestrian/biker friendly park in that location enhance the neighborhood more than another residential building? An immediate park always is more desirable than a nearby park, a certainty not grasped by RTA or many of the posters in the article.

[WRnative]

Will a prominent building site in Cleveland Hts. receive a building worthy of the location?

https://www.cleveland.com/expo/life-...even-litt.html

This article raises the question of whether new development throughout Greater Cleveland lacks architectural inspiration and so is turning the region into an architecturally boring, if not depressing wasteland.