Cleveland Development Discussions (Mentor, Jackson: Publix, degree, facilities)

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by 216facts

I don't agree. So many other companies have left Cleveland either by moving south or just going out of business. We lost Warner + Swasey, Richmond brothers, Eaton, the list is very long and several of these were much bigger companies than S+W. Yeah it hurt, but we survived in our current form, not so bad.

This corporate welfare has got to stop, and I don't like being a party to it by promoting it. I'd much rather invest in the downtown businesses that are hiring and obviously have a bright future - these are small start up businesses that truly need help to get to positive revenue. Granted they're probably not going to build a 50 story phallus on a parking lot but that's OK with me too.

We are talking thousands of jobs and a very successful international business with a much higher profile than Eaton. It would be an absolute blow to Cleveland, rippling throughout the local economy. In no situation is Cleveland better off without shw. Sorry to be adamant I guess but it's just in my opinion not even a discussion.



I'm not a supporter of "corporate welfare" but there is a difference between tax breaks and subsidy. sherwin has been here for a VERY long time.

[QCongress83216]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

We are talking thousands of jobs and a very successful international business with a much higher profile than Eaton. It would be an absolute blow to Cleveland, rippling throughout the local economy. In no situation is Cleveland better off without shw. Sorry to be adamant I guess but it's just in my opinion not even a discussion.



I'm not a supporter of "corporate welfare" but there is a difference between tax breaks and subsidy. sherwin has been here for a VERY long time.

Nothing wrong with being adamant. You're giving your perspective since you just moved from a city in Boston with multiple Fortune 500 companies and corporations to Cleveland, where they aren't many.

[TheProf]

I'm not for corporate welfare either; taxpayers continually funding these new stadiums for billionaires in an economically-strapped city like Cleveland really grates on me (and I'm a HUGE Cleveland sports fan), ... but Sherwin-Williams is a different animal. The company has been quietly going about its biz for 153 years tucked away in the handsome Art Deco though un-designated Landmark office tower behind Terminal Tower since it opened in 1930; now cramped and way outdated technologically ... but they are a Fortune 500 company; the largest paint company in America (I'm pretty sure of that, esp after the Valspar acquisition) -- they are the last for-profit, legacy corporation -- CCF is a 501(c)(3). And SWP has around 5,000 employees in greater Cleveland ... and that's likely to expand.

So for SHW, I make many concessions to keep them here, especially downtown.

[216facts]

Sherwin only has about 3% of the jobs in downtown Cleveland. Granted, that is about 3000 jobs and a lot of them, maybe most of them are high paying. I don't like investing a bunch of tax dollars in one entity, one management, one market (paint). I would find ways to hedge the bet and spread the tax dollars across multiple small businesses. That's why I advocated for business incubators, gap funding, even investing in small startups perhaps through Tri-C and CSU.

Nonetheless, lets hope they don't move and don't need too much of our future tax monies. I also hope they don't build a large building downtown. Nothing hurts a company's bottom line like over investing in unneeded infrastructure, need to put that money into R+D.

[ohioaninsc]

I don't like corporate welfare but I hate losing thousands of good paying jobs...and we do tax breaks for these developers to put up apartment buildings downtown and they don't supply thousands of good paying jobs like Sherwin Williams...so yes i am for doing whatever is necessary to keep them here and keep them downtown.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by 216facts

Sherwin only has about 3% of the jobs in downtown Cleveland. Granted, that is about 3000 jobs and a lot of them, maybe most of them are high paying. I don't like investing a bunch of tax dollars in one entity, one management, one market (paint). I would find ways to hedge the bet and spread the tax dollars across multiple small businesses. That's why I advocated for business incubators, gap funding, even investing in small startups perhaps through Tri-C and CSU.

Nonetheless, lets hope they don't move and don't need too much of our future tax monies. I also hope they don't build a large building downtown. Nothing hurts a company's bottom line like over investing in unneeded infrastructure, need to put that money into R+D.

Are you expecting CLE to give SW tax money directly or deferring or forgiving some type of tax whether permanently or for a specified time period? I don’t think SW is expecting CLE to give it money directly.

Consolidating and expanding the SW workforce in downtown CLE, particularly on public square, is worth striking a deal if SW is looking for one. A new Corp headquarters tower in downtown CLE, given the office space need SW has, will be skyline altering. CLE needs a SW tower as a replacement of the long lost Ameritrust tower. Hoping for a 1200’+ tower on public square. Think big CLE.

Pretty sure SW knows it’s needs and staying confined in a cramped 90 year old building from The Hoover Administration isn’t exactly needed infrastructure any longer. Time for SW to move into the 21st century and a new state of the art skyscraper is just what it and CLE needs.

Don’t forget that large corporations often provide lots of collateral benefits to hometowns, including, for starters, sponsoring business incubator programs in local schools.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by 216facts

I don't agree. So many other companies have left Cleveland either by moving south or just going out of business. We lost Warner + Swasey, Richmond brothers, Eaton, the list is very long and several of these were much bigger companies than S+W. Yeah it hurt, but we survived in our current form, not so bad.

This corporate welfare has got to stop, and I don't like being a party to it by promoting it. I'd much rather invest in the downtown businesses that are hiring and obviously have a bright future - these are small start up businesses that truly need help to get to positive revenue. Granted they're probably not going to build a 50 story phallus on a parking lot but that's OK with me too.

Not so sure it’s wise to downplay the significance of SW leaving CLE.

Not sure as well what “we survived in our current form, not so bad” means in the context of the listed corps no longer in CLE given the fact that CLE has lost almost 60% of its peak population, has the highest large city U.S. poverty rate generally with children in poverty in particular, among the lowest city education rates (college graduates), abysmal schools, high crime rates, inept political leadership etc.

What money is CLE expected to give SW that it would otherwise use by giving it away, as you suggest to small businesses that “obviously have bright futures” yet according to you aren’t showing even positive revenue? Now that is truly corporate welfare.

[1watertiger]

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[MaskedRacer]

Have not been in CLE area that long but have found the local grocery stores to be disappointing. This does not include Costco, aldi, or national places like that.

Heinens, Marcs, Giant Eagle is what I am referring to. What a let down, they all think. Such inferior to places like Food Lion and Kroger which are in other cities. Those are awesome grocery stores. Too bad CLE does not have them.

[QCongress83216]

Originally Posted by MaskedRacer

Have not been in CLE area that long but have found the local grocery stores to be disappointing. This does not include Costco, aldi, or national places like that.

Heinens, Marcs, Giant Eagle is what I am referring to. What a let down, they all think. Such inferior to places like Food Lion and Kroger which are in other cities. Those are awesome grocery stores. Too bad CLE does not have them.

Spoken like a true, spoiled Southerner jk lol .