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Won't sugar coat it, Cleveland is having an even worse year than normal. But most of the city is about where it usually is outside the far northeast side which is going crazy.
I don't think the headlines locally have caught up to what is driving it. I'm definitely not privy to why there is seemingly nightly shootings in Glenville/Forest Hills/Collinwood. But something is going on up there. Granted those have been high murder areas for decades but not to this extent.
Yeah. This is really important to note in any city. I would probably personally still feel safe visiting Detroit, Cleveland, St. Louis, Kansas City, New Orleans, or, yes, even Jackson, MS. Why, you may ask? If the vast majority of homicides involve parties that know one another and are generally confined to the same few pockets in any city, then why would I, as a law-abiding tourist in just the Downtown and/or culturally-intriguing areas of any city, have to worry about being gunned down? I would be more concerned if Cleveland ended the year with 300 homicides with 200 of them targeting random strangers or innocent bystanders. If 5 of the 300 are like that? No concern to me.
Also, Pittsburgh had a horrible year last year and is having a great year this year (can't remember the last time we were headed into August with well under 30 homicides). Perhaps Cleveland is just late to the party and will have their bad year THIS year and then a safe year next year? Similarly in Pittsburgh only 1 or 2 of our annual homicides seem to be random in nature (I'll admit the cyclist in our Bloomfield neighborhood who was shot dead at random by a mentally-ill passerby is still very unnerving, and I wish we had more mental health care options in this city).
Yeah. This is really important to note in any city. I would probably personally still feel safe visiting Detroit, Cleveland, St. Louis, Kansas City, New Orleans, or, yes, even Jackson, MS. Why, you may ask? If the vast majority of homicides involve parties that know one another and are generally confined to the same few pockets in any city, then why would I, as a law-abiding tourist in just the Downtown and/or culturally-intriguing areas of any city, have to worry about being gunned down? I would be more concerned if Cleveland ended the year with 300 homicides with 200 of them targeting random strangers or innocent bystanders. If 5 of the 300 are like that? No concern to me.
Also, Pittsburgh had a horrible year last year and is having a great year this year (can't remember the last time we were headed into August with well under 30 homicides). Perhaps Cleveland is just late to the party and will have their bad year THIS year and then a safe year next year? Similarly in Pittsburgh only 1 or 2 of our annual homicides seem to be random in nature (I'll admit the cyclist in our Bloomfield neighborhood who was shot dead at random by a mentally-ill passerby is still very unnerving, and I wish we had more mental health care options in this city).
I like to point out that cities kind of lie about those things. Boston’s gang database is based on like which parks you play basketball at or which YMCA you lift at. Which basically means most 17-29 year olds from high crime neighborhoods are “connected” even if their “connection” is their neighborhood Y is the same one. Not that you actually have some meaningful connection with.
“It’s gamgbangers don’t worry about it” is a PR strategy as much as it’s reality
Last edited by btownboss4; 07-27-2023 at 04:51 AM..
I like to point out that cities kind of lie about those things. Boston’s gang database is based on like which parks you play basketball at or which YMCA you lift at. Which basically means most 17-29 year olds from high crime neighborhoods are “connected” even if their “connection” is their neighborhood Y is the same one. Not that you actually have some meaningful connection with.
“It’s gamgbangers don’t worry about it” is a PR strategy as much as it’s reality
The point still stands generally, however.
Without exception, urban violent crime remains VERY heavily concentrated in specific areas, and unfortunately it EXTREMELY disproportionately impacts and victimizes residents in poor neighborhoods of color.
Yes, you'll hear about some more spurious connections more than others, but 99% of the time, both the perpetrator and the victim are individuals within the same social network of similar socioeconomic status and race.
Yeah. This is really important to note in any city. I would probably personally still feel safe visiting Detroit, Cleveland, St. Louis, Kansas City, New Orleans, or, yes, even Jackson, MS. Why, you may ask? If the vast majority of homicides involve parties that know one another and are generally confined to the same few pockets in any city, then why would I, as a law-abiding tourist in just the Downtown and/or culturally-intriguing areas of any city, have to worry about being gunned down? I would be more concerned if Cleveland ended the year with 300 homicides with 200 of them targeting random strangers or innocent bystanders. If 5 of the 300 are like that? No concern to me.
Also, Pittsburgh had a horrible year last year and is having a great year this year (can't remember the last time we were headed into August with well under 30 homicides). Perhaps Cleveland is just late to the party and will have their bad year THIS year and then a safe year next year? Similarly in Pittsburgh only 1 or 2 of our annual homicides seem to be random in nature (I'll admit the cyclist in our Bloomfield neighborhood who was shot dead at random by a mentally-ill passerby is still very unnerving, and I wish we had more mental health care options in this city).
Yes, for example in Philadelphia there have been a total of 2 homicides in greater Center City (Spring Garden to Washington Avenue) this year and both seem to be targeted. There’s close to zero chance that you will be murdered randomly in any area that tourists will be visiting. Same goes for most of the nicer residential areas.
That’s not to say this isn’t a major crisis, just that the fear mongering doesn’t match the actual risk for people who don’t have anything to do with drug dealing or gangs.
Yes, for example in Philadelphia there have been a total of 2 homicides in greater Center City (Spring Garden to Washington Avenue) this year and both seem to be targeted. There’s close to zero chance that you will be murdered randomly in any area that tourists will be visiting. Same goes for most of the nicer residential areas.
That’s not to say this isn’t a major crisis, just that the fear mongering doesn’t match the actual risk for people who don’t have anything to do with drug dealing or gangs.
Same can be said usually for central part of Baltimore (So Locust Point up to Harbor east to Fells plus downtown) - you're talking about maybe 5-6 homicides a year, and most of them are not random.
All it takes is a few higher profile incidents (i.e. "rowdy" youths "taking over" an area, street takeover with cars doing donuts in a busy intersection, etc.) for people to start talking about "an area being dangerous", though...even when the statistics show otherwise. Talking about the "rowdy" crowd at Inner Harbor one week follow by one at Penn's Landing a few days later.
Without exception, urban violent crime remains VERY heavily concentrated in specific areas, and unfortunately it EXTREMELY disproportionately impacts and victimizes residents in poor neighborhoods of color.
Yes, you'll hear about some more spurious connections more than others, but 99% of the time, both the perpetrator and the victim are individuals within the same social network of similar socioeconomic status and race.
Yeah but regardless the life for your average person in a place like Kensington or SW DC is far more dangerous than people like to admit. Because city officials have a motive to label homicides as not a threat to the general public. For every spurious connection that is plainly concocted this 12 year old was targeted” there is probably 15 innocent 17-35 year olds being gunned down that nobody questions the story at all.
Yeah but regardless the life for your average person in a place like Kensington or SW DC is far more dangerous than people like to admit. Because city officials have a motive to label homicides as not a threat to the general public. For every spurious connection that is plainly concocted this 12 year old was targeted” there is probably 15 innocent 17-35 year olds being gunned down that nobody questions the story at all.
The circumstances of shootings are actually too often not followed up on enough, but it's very clear they overwhelmingly arise due to domestic situations or other transgressions. A perpetrator and victim may not intimately know each other, but the victim generally wasn't just "minding their own business" or did not have some other money/relationship connection or was not precipitated by some kind of conflict. This is especially true in the age of social media. So your use of the word "innocence" in the purest and complete sense is rarely the case.
The circumstances of shootings are actually too often not followed up on enough, but it's very clear they overwhelmingly arise due to domestic situations or other transgressions. A perpetrator and victim may not intimately know each other, but the victim generally wasn't just "minding their own business" or did not have some other money/relationship connection or was not precipitated by some kind of conflict. This is especially true in the age of social media. So your use of the word "innocence" in the purest and complete sense is rarely the case.
The Baltimore police close 37% of homicides. We actually don’t know who is committing most murders so how can we know if they have connection with the victim? People make suppositions to make people feel better that’s how.
Also the idea relatively benign conflicts escalate to homicide is an issue if you do live there or frequent there. These “conflicts” can be “you flirted with the wrong girl”. And it gets classes as a non random homicide
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