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This doesn't make any sense because if there is any city in Canada that's built its economic model on investment from the US it's Toronto.
Toronto is the choice Canadian beachhead for American companies wanting to establish themselves in Canada.
Montreal due to the "French thing" (sic) gets fewer American investments and alternatively tends to have a higher share of European investment in its activity.
Montreal's economy is also somewhat more homegrown than Toronto's (a phenom often referred to as "Québec Inc.").
I'd also agree with Fusion2 that US CSAs are super-sized compared to the comparable measure in Canada, the CMA: Census Metropolitan Area.
I don't think in apples-to-apples terms that Toronto's real metro area is bigger than Chicago's (yet), but it's a lot closer to it than a lot of people here are recognizing.
Have you considered since Toronto more than 50% bigger than Montreal the scale still outweighs the marginal differences in makeup.
But Chicago has an economy 10% larger than ONTARIO. Not 10% bigger than Toronto so CMA vs MSA distinctions are not super important here. Cause it’s not even close.
Also I’d like to reiterate I think Canadian cities get overrated compared to American (and Chinese ones) due to the size of Canada’s economy and relation to the US. But not overrated generally cause no country has the domestic infrastructure and business ecosystem the US has. And Canada is not a tiny economy it’s a fairly large very wealthy in its own right and can go toe to toe with like Italy or Great Britain.
This doesn't make any sense because if there is any city in Canada that's built its economic model on investment from the US it's Toronto.
Toronto is the choice Canadian beachhead for American companies wanting to establish themselves in Canada.
Montreal due to the "French thing" (sic) gets fewer American investments and alternatively tends to have a higher share of European investment in its activity.
Montreal's economy is also somewhat more homegrown than Toronto's (a phenom often referred to as "Québec Inc.").
I'd also agree with Fusion2 that US CSAs are super-sized compared to the comparable measure in Canada, the CMA: Census Metropolitan Area.
I don't think in apples-to-apples terms that Toronto's real metro area is bigger than Chicago's (yet), but it's a lot closer to it than a lot of people here are recognizing.
FDI in Canada was about 68 billion dollars in 2019. It rose to about 75 billion in 2022.
Of that 68 billion, 30 billion was invested in Ontario and 6.7 Billion in Quebec. So yes, Ontario receives the biggest share of the pie. That said, Canada's GDP is over 2 Trillion dollars. I mean, this is great to get FDI but I think we need to put this into overall perspective. Depending on measure used The GTA/MSA equivalent is between 460 Billion and 520 Billion USD so I hardly think the economy of the Toronto region would crater if not for U.S FDI. Certainly Quebec nor Montreal would either so..
So of the 68 billion the U.S invests about 50 percent of that the rest from other countries - so say 35 Billion dollars.
It should also be pointed out that Canada is the second largest country investing in the U.S with about 20 Billion USD - so there is only a 15 billion dollar difference - on a national economic scale forgive, this is pretty miniscule for either country.
So i'm failing to really see why FDI is thrown around here so much. Its important but this isn't really moving the dial as much as some in here are portraying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4
Also I’d like to reiterate I think Canadian cities get overrated compared to American (and Chinese ones) due to the size of Canada’s economy and relation to the US. But not overrated generally cause no country has the domestic infrastructure and business ecosystem the US has. And Canada is not a tiny economy it’s a fairly large very wealthy in its own right and can go toe to toe with like Italy or Great Britain.
Overrated in what way? The Kearney list? economy? What. Like seriously not everything is about GDP and i'm not crying over T.O's GDP - on a global level its pretty impressive and still stacks up pretty well to peer sized cites in the U.S. Did you check the median household incomes in Toronto and Chicago? Looks like that supersized GDP may not be sprinkled down to the masses as much as it should be. It seems this is more about corporate and the 1 percent chest thumping than how the everyday family is doing.
Have you considered since Toronto more than 50% bigger than Montreal the scale still outweighs the marginal differences in makeup.
But Chicago has an economy 10% larger than ONTARIO. Not 10% bigger than Toronto so CMA vs MSA distinctions are not super important here. Cause it’s not even close.
Also I’d like to reiterate I think Canadian cities get overrated compared to American (and Chinese ones) due to the size of Canada’s economy and relation to the US. But not overrated generally cause no country has the domestic infrastructure and business ecosystem the US has. And Canada is not a tiny economy it’s a fairly large very wealthy in its own right and can go toe to toe with like Italy or Great Britain.
You are absolutely downplaying Montreal... Go there, for starters. And no, don't just come on C-D and post that you've been there. GO there. How many American cities compare? Very few.
You are absolutely downplaying Montreal... Go there, for starters. And no, don't just come on C-D and post that you've been there. GO there. How many American cities compare? Very few.
He is downplaying because the only thing important to him are three capital letters: GDP
FDI in Canada was about 68 billion dollars in 2019. It rose to about 75 billion in 2022.
Of that 68 billion, 30 billion was invested in Ontario and 6.7 Billion in Quebec. So yes, Ontario receives the biggest share of the pie. That said, Canada's GDP is over 2 Trillion dollars. I mean, this is great to get FDI but I think we need to put this into overall perspective. Depending on measure used The GTA/MSA equivalent is between 460 Billion and 520 Billion USD so I hardly think the economy of the Toronto region would crater if not for U.S FDI.
So of the 68 billion the U.S invests about 50 percent of that the rest from other countries - so say 35 Billion dollars.
It should also be pointed out that Canada is the second largest country investing in the U.S with about 20 Billion USD - so there is only a 15 billion dollar difference - on a national economic scale forgive, this is pretty miniscule for either country.
So i'm failing to really see why FDI is thrown around here so much. Its important but this isn't really moving the dial as much as some in here are portraying.
You are totally misrepresenting what I am saying. The US invests roughly 2% of Canada’s entire GDP every year, Canada invests 0.1% of the US GDP into America. (And the reverse is true, the US invests ~0.1% of its GDP in Canada but Canada invests ~1.5% of its GDP in the United States). So for an individual Canadian city it’s an order of magnitude different
if you look at foreign visitors it’s quite similar what would be a domestic trip to St Louis when the Blackhawk’s play is an “international visitor” when the Bruins play Montreal. The Blue Jays take 50 international trips or whatever and the Cleveland Guardians two. But it’s the same thing.
Once you get below maybe Chicago or so you’re playing with margins. Imagine at 98-101 Basketball game. It’s Montreal edging out Atlanta or Toronto edging out Boston. So these small advantages boost Canadian cities “international profile”.
You are totally misrepresenting what I am saying. The US invests roughly 2% of Canada’s entire GDP every year, Canada invests 0.1% of the US GDP into America. (And the reverse is true, the US invests ~0.1% of its GDP in Canada but Canada invests ~1.5% of its GDP in the United States). So for an individual Canadian city it’s an order of magnitude different
if you look at foreign visitors it’s quite similar what would be a domestic trip to St Louis when the Blackhawk’s play is an “international visitor” when the Bruins play Montreal. The Blue Jays take 50 international trips or whatever and the Cleveland Guardians two. But it’s the same thing.
Once you get below maybe Chicago or so you’re playing with margins. Imagine at 98-101 Basketball game. It’s Montreal edging out Atlanta or Toronto edging out Washington. So these small advantages boost Canadian cities “international profile”.
Yes the U.S is an economy 10 X larger than Canada so i'm struggling to see why this is shocking. That said, i'm sorry but 2 percent of our economy is well -2 percent lol. If it was 25 percent or 50 percent than I think your arguments would resonate more strongly.
Back to the Kearney list - the U.S has 5 cities ranked higher than Toronto - what is the problem?? The U.S has 5 very successful international cities. If you want the others higher it would probably be at the expense of your top 5. GAWC ranks Toronto more highly as an A world city even with Chicago and L.A but below NYC. All other U.S cities lower. So these lists well they are lists. Generally I think they are a decent gauge but not the be all and end all.
In terms of your sporting analogies, really I think you are again with laser like focus on relatively minor details. Toronto is over 50 percent foreign born with an ethnic and linguistic diversity only second to NYC in our countries. This is the primary driver of Toronto's International profile, Not the Blue Jays going to Cleveland. Toronto's International Pax O/D is higher than most U.S airports as well due to this international profile - Atlanta for example is mainly a connections airport. A huge one but the International O/D numbers are less than thrilling. So a good example of where size doesn't always tell the full tale.
Yes the U.S is an economy 10 X larger than Canada so i'm struggling to see why this is shocking. That said, i'm sorry but 2 percent of our economy is well -2 percent lol. If it was 25 percent or 50 percent than I think your arguments would resonate more strongly.
Back to the Kearney list - the U.S has 5 cities ranked higher than Toronto - what is the problem... GAWC ranks Toronto more highly as an A world city even with Chicago and L.A but below NYC. All other U.S cities lower. So these lists well they are lists. Generally I think they are a decent gauge but not the be all and end all.
In terms of your sporting analogies, really I think you are again with laser like focus on relatively minor details. Toronto is over 50 percent foreign born with an ethnic and linguistic diversity only second to NYC in our countries. This is the primary driver of Toronto's International profile, Not the Blue Jays going to Cleveland. Toronto's International Pax O/D is higher than most U.S airports as well due to this international profile - Atlanta for example is mainly a connections airport. A huge one but the International O/D numbers are less than thrilling. So a good example of where size doesn't always tell the full tale.
42% of International passengers to/From Toronto are from the United States. For Montreal it’s 33%.
For obvious reasons the average US city doesn’t have that sort of passenger volume from Canada. Even like Miami (a huge snowbird destination) doesn’t have a Canadian airport in the top 30 O/D pairs.
So like Kearny (and GAWC) does, if you measure international visitors as a stat, Canada gets a huge boost. Combine that with people driving/bussing over the border you’re almost certainly talking the majority of international visitors are American.
Because America and Canada have a hugely asymmetric relationship.
And again 2% is pretty big when the other number is below 0.1%. It gives the average Canadian city a 20x advantage over an average American city.
42% of International passengers to/From Toronto are from the United States. For Montreal it’s 33%.
For obvious reasons the average US city doesn’t have that sort of passenger volume from Canada. Even like Miami (a huge snowbird destination) doesn’t have a Canadian airport in the top 30 O/D pairs.
So like Kearny (and GAWC) does, if you measure international visitors as a stat, Canada gets a huge boost. Combine that with people driving/bussing over the border you’re almost certainly talking the majority of international visitors are American.
Because America and Canada have a hugely asymmetric relationship.
Toronto doesn't regard U.S passengers as International. It regards them as Transborder. Still, take a look at the international profile - minus U.S cities and you'll see an impressive list of International destinations. Feel free to compare to other U.S cities and you'll see probably a stronger connection between it and your most global cities, than those that are ranked lower than Toronto on Kearney's list.
I'm not sure how much Kearney measures land crossings as a way of boosting an international city profile. Did you see that? Frankly, I don't see much in the way of any boost of international profile of any city in either country as a result of - Sally crossing the border to visit Aunt Nancy and having lunch at Bob Evans. I dunno - maybe i'm missing something here.
As for the 2 percent thing - the U.S simply has a big economic advantage due to the absolute size of its economy. Now you are going on about the fact that a country 10 times larger economically is providing 20 times more relative investment. Really, I mean look at the commercial landscape of the U.S and Canada. When was the last time you bought something at Canadian Tire or Dollorama in the U.S? I went to Walmart yesterday and Home Depot over the weekend so the U.S has a tremendous retail advantage. I'm not whining over it but if I have to hear one more minuscule advantage you perceive Canada as having that the U.S doesn't I might have to lol.
Yes the U.S is an economy 10 X larger than Canada so i'm struggling to see why this is shocking. That said, i'm sorry but 2 percent of our economy is well -2 percent lol. If it was 25 percent or 50 percent than I think your arguments would resonate more strongly.
Back to the Kearney list - the U.S has 5 cities ranked higher than Toronto - what is the problem?? The U.S has 5 very successful international cities. If you want the others higher it would probably be at the expense of your top 5. GAWC ranks Toronto more highly as an A world city even with Chicago and L.A but below NYC. All other U.S cities lower. So these lists well they are lists. Generally I think they are a decent gauge but not the be all and end all.
In terms of your sporting analogies, really I think you are again with laser like focus on relatively minor details. Toronto is over 50 percent foreign born with an ethnic and linguistic diversity only second to NYC in our countries. This is the primary driver of Toronto's International profile, Not the Blue Jays going to Cleveland. Toronto's International Pax O/D is higher than most U.S airports as well due to this international profile - Atlanta for example is mainly a connections airport. A huge one but the International O/D numbers are less than thrilling. So a good example of where size doesn't always tell the full tale.
Canada GDP is size of NYC metro area or Texas
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