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View Poll Results: Which NE City would work best for middle class black Family?
New York City 49 14.41%
Philadelphia 176 51.76%
Boston 35 10.29%
Providence 10 2.94%
Harrisburg 11 3.24%
Newark 21 6.18%
Wilmington 20 5.88%
Jersey City 18 5.29%
Voters: 340. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-21-2022, 05:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
I think I might have already mentioned this way upthread, but Willingboro is "the Black Levittown."

New Jersey was an early adopter of laws banning racial discrimination in the sale or provision of housing, and Levitt & Sons, which had a policy of refusing to sell houses in its two (at the time) Levittowns to Black buyers, ran afoul of New Jersey law when a Black veteran sought to buy a home in Levittown, N.J., and was rebuffed. The New Jersey Supreme Court sided with the would-be buyer, and Levitt had to open homes in his New Jersey Levittown to all comers.

That Levittown also had the distinction of being entirely located in a single municipality: Willingboro Township, Burlington County, whose name the new residents changed at Levitt's behest. A different set of residents changed it back in 1963, whereupon Levitt stopped funding school construction in the community.
It is interesting how the Levittown on the PA is different demographically.

This leads me to a question about the Philadelphia area, outside of the city and Camden, between PA and NJ, which side has more of a reputation in terms of attracting or having a bigger black middle class presence? Is it pretty even or does this even come up?
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Old 03-21-2022, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
It is interesting how the Levittown on the PA is different demographically.

This leads me to a question about the Philadelphia area, outside of the city and Camden, between PA and NJ, which side has more of a reputation in terms of attracting or having a bigger black middle class presence? Is it pretty even or does this even come up?
The interesting thing is, the answer depends on what you're talking about.

If you're talking about where the black middle class lives in Philadelphia's suburbs, well, pace Willingboro, there are probably more living in the Pennsylvania-side suburbs than the New Jersey ones. But since about 2/3 of the population of the eight core metro counties (5 in Pennsylvania, 3 in New Jersey) lives in Pennsylvania, middle-class Blacks may account for a higher percentage of New Jersey's suburban population — and if so, Willingboro contributes mightily to that stat.

Racial discrimination in housing figures in another much-discussed pair of lawsuits handed down by the New Jersey Supreme Court in the 1970s and 1980s. New Jersey actually has a pretty long history of Black settlement in its southern reaches thanks to Quaker abolitionists who purchased land in what was then the country with the aim of offering it to free Blacks for farming. The Borough of Lawnside in Camden County, incorporated in 1926 when the New Jersey legislature dissolved the township containing it so it could be established, is the municipal legacy of this history — it's the first and oldest Black-run municipality north of the Mason-Dixon Line. (Its symbol-rich municipal seal also references its history as a stop on the Underground Railroad.)

However, not all the areas where Blacks put down roots as farmers fared as well as Lawnside did. For instance, whites, especially Italian-Americans moving out of South Philadelphia, began to place all sorts of restrictions on the sale or use of land in Mount Laurel Township, one of the communities in this zone. The zoning rules in effect froze low- and moderate-income Blacks out of the community and prevented the existing residents from disposing of their land as they saw fit. Black residents began to protest how the township was treating them, to which borough officials in effect responded, "Tough. This is our community now."

Those residents, led by a woman named Ethel Lawrence who sought to buy a plot of land in Mount Laurel, sued the township in state court on grounds that Mount Laurel's zoning ordinances were racially discriminatory. The New Jersey Supreme Court ruled in their favor in 1975, mandating that every one of the state's 561 municipalities had to make some sort affirmative effort to provide low-income housing within their borders. This decision, known simply as Mount Laurel, is perhaps the most widely-discussed housing-law case in the nation for this reason. Foot-dragging and other tactics designed to thwart the intent of Mount Laurel led to a subsequent ruling in 1985 known as Mount Laurel II that mandated that the state come up with numbers of affordable units that needed to be built and ensure that every municipality in the state provide its "fair share" of such housing.

This article on the website of the advocacy group that took up Lawrence's case gives a detailed history of both Black settlement in Mount Laurel and the road to Mount Laurel. The leaders of the advocacy group founded a development firm that specializes in building affordable housing in upscale communities like Mount Laurel (after years of effort on the part of it and other towns to weasel their way out of their obligations as laid out in both Mount Laurel and Mount Laurel II. Its flagship development is the Ethel Lawrence Homes in Mount Laurel.

To borrow the title of a critically praised book published a few years ago, the whole Mount Laurel saga is an effort to prevent the "dream hoarders" from hogging all the opportunity.
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Old 03-21-2022, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Baltimore
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My mentor I who was born and raised in South Philly in the 50s and 60s said you don’t know racist until you meant an G*inea from Philly. He was always like “they don’t play no gamesâ€

some of ethnic whites would move into a city or metro that had a reputation (Boston/Philly) for being progressive and then ramp up the intolerance as high as possible. Just “subtle enough†for the WASPS to turn a blind eye.
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Old 03-21-2022, 08:41 PM
 
37,875 posts, read 41,896,305 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
It is interesting how the Levittown on the PA is different demographically.

This leads me to a question about the Philadelphia area, outside of the city and Camden, between PA and NJ, which side has more of a reputation in terms of attracting or having a bigger black middle class presence? Is it pretty even or does this even come up?
I only resided in the area for a year, but I don't really think it comes up like that. I can't really think of a PA suburb of Philly that has outsized appeal for Black middle class folks, which is somewhat interesting given its two HBCUs south of the city. On the Jersey side, I learned that Willingboro, Lindenwold, and Trenton has decently-sized Black middle class neighborhoods. Truthfully, it would seem that Delaware could go toe-to-toe with both in this respect.
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Old 03-21-2022, 08:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
I only resided in the area for a year, but I don't really think it comes up like that. I can't really think of a PA suburb of Philly that has outsized appeal for Black middle class folks, which is somewhat interesting given its two HBCUs south of the city. On the Jersey side, I learned that Willingboro, Lindenwold, and Trenton has decently-sized Black middle class neighborhoods. Truthfully, it would seem that Delaware could go toe-to-toe with both in this respect.
I was thinking about that too, given some of the information for places like Bear and Middletown in Delaware.

Like MarketStEl mentioned in the post illustrating the interesting history on the NJ side, it seems to also have more of a long time small town/rural black population aspect to it as well.
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Old 03-21-2022, 09:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
^Before I add some more places, the places above are some places in their respective areas with at least a decent black population or have areas with a decent black population.

Some others...

Gates NY(town just west of Rochester, 15.4% inc. in combo): $81,711: https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table...5Y2020.B19113B

West Haven CT(city next to New Haven, 24.9%): $65,750: https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table...5Y2020.B19113B

Middletown DE(town south of Wilmington, 34.6%): $92,541: https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table...5Y2020.B19113B

Willingboro NJ(township east of Philadelphia, 76%): $88,502: https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table...5Y2020.B19113B

North Providence RI(town next to Providence, 11.9%): $90,091: https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table...5Y2020.B19113B

Holbrook MA(town in between Boston/Brockton, 19.2%): $74,722: https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table...5Y2020.B19113B
Some more places...

Freeport NY(village on Long Island, 37.7%): $102,274: https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table...5Y2020.B19113B

Union NJ(township SW of Newark, 35.8%): $112,476: https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table...5Y2020.B19113B

Stratford CT(town just east of Bridgeport, 21.7%): $95,313: https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table...5Y2020.B19113B

Medford MA(city outside of Boston, 10.1%): $102,652: https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table...5Y2020.B19113B

Lansdowne PA(borough outside of Philadelphia, 57.5%): $73,416: https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table...5Y2020.B19113B

Highlands NY(small town south of Newburgh/next to West Point that includes the village of Highland Falls, 13.4%): $102,500: https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table...5Y2020.B19113B
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Old 03-22-2022, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Baltimore
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https://www.enterprisenews.com/story...ass-dartmouth/

Ed Cooley was named Big East Coach of the Year, a Providence native, he has a life story that shows how a middle class person might move around in Providence (not by being a millionaire basketball coach m)

Cooley grew up in Providence and graduated from Central High School in Providence. He did a prep year at New Hampton School in New Hampshire. Then went on to play college basketball at Stonehill College- generally considered a Boston area school but technically a Providence area school. Stonehill is in Easton MA- generally considered a suburb of Brockton. After Stonehill he went on to be a teacher at Bridgewater-Raynham High school ( I had a family member attend many years later) about 3 miles south of Brockton.

His first coaching job was at UMASS-Dartmouth, then back to Stonehill, then he went to Univeristy of Rhode Island, then Boston College, then finally settling back in Providence at Providence College. Last year he was able to get fellow Providence native David Duke into the NBA. This year he has AJ Reeves a Roxbury MA senior who came in with Duke as they were both ranked #43 and #44 player nationally their HS senior year.

Point being here much of living in Providence as a black person is your going over into the MA border very often. The state is literally that small. Especially Providence County.
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Old 03-22-2022, 09:30 AM
 
Location: D.C. / I-95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade View Post
Very easy to travel the New England cities if you want to get a real feel for them itd be best to just hop from AirBnB to AirBnB. The thing is folks have to really go there and engage with cities that have less notable black culture/ les things to do in general.

New Haven, Hartford, Springfield, Worcester, Lynn, New Britain, Boston, Providence, Lowell, Brockton, New Bedford, New London, Pawtucket, Waterbury, Bridgeport, Danbury, Framingham. You could hope from City to City continuously with no more than a 40-minute gap between any of them.

What makes it more difficult is that few of these cities are directly on I-95. They are on various state routes and interstates.

The interior Northeast is much bigger and much larger gaps between cities. But generally larger cities when you do get there. Southern New England has a ton of 90-200k cities spread aoround.
Now that's its getting warmer I may just do that. I'll probably hit Boston in June/July.
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Old 03-22-2022, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Baltimore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 908Boi View Post
Now that's its getting warmer I may just do that. I'll probably hit Boston in June/July.
When you go-slide me a DM. I can hook it up for you. Even outside MA- only area im weak in is west of new haven/west haven. Juneteenth in Roxbury and DayTrill July 1 in Providence.
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Old 03-22-2022, 10:41 AM
 
93,193 posts, read 123,783,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade View Post
https://www.enterprisenews.com/story...ass-dartmouth/

Ed Cooley was named Big East Coach of the Year, a Providence native, he has a life story that shows how a middle class person might move around in Providence (not by being a millionaire basketball coach m)

Cooley grew up in Providence and graduated from Central High School in Providence. He did a prep year at New Hampton School in New Hampshire. Then went on to play college basketball at Stonehill College- generally considered a Boston area school but technically a Providence area school. Stonehill is in Easton MA- generally considered a suburb of Brockton. After Stonehill he went on to be a teacher at Bridgewater-Raynham High school ( I had a family member attend many years later) about 3 miles south of Brockton.

His first coaching job was at UMASS-Dartmouth, then back to Stonehill, then he went to Univeristy of Rhode Island, then Boston College, then finally settling back in Providence at Providence College. Last year he was able to get fellow Providence native David Duke into the NBA. This year he has AJ Reeves a Roxbury MA senior who came in with Duke as they were both ranked #43 and #44 player nationally their HS senior year.

Point being here much of living in Providence as a black person is your going over into the MA border very often. The state is literally that small. Especially Providence County.
In between BC and Providence, he was the head coach at Fairfield(outside of Bridgeport for those not familiar) for a little while as well.

What is interesting is that in reading the article and listening to a sports radio show on a black owned radio station out of Buffalo, both mentioned how real he is. So, he seems like a straight up and stand up dude.

Last edited by ckhthankgod; 03-22-2022 at 10:49 AM..
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