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Location: Midwesterner living in California (previously East Coast)
296 posts, read 437,758 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo
Really? An itemized list of every little thing that has happened? You do realize that while KCMO's downtown has probably gone through the most impressive transformation of any downtown in the past ten years that it's not like nothing has happened before that right? I mean downtown kcmo has always been pretty active. In the 80's there were so many towers under construction downtown that you couldn't see through all the cranes. It's just that nearly all of the residential projects (and many office) went to the plaza area during that time so downtown KC was booming, but mostly as a 9-5 business center. KC was essentially building two downtowns in the 80's. And in the 70's, the Crown Center area was built just outside of downtown, which is a huge mixed use area. Downtown KC would rival Denver or Minneapolis today if the plaza did not exist, but we can't pretend like the plaza doesn't exist. Most people in KC consider the plaza as an extension of the greater downtown urban core. Even though it's several miles away, the two are very much tied to one another and there is a lot of interaction between them.
Anyway, I'm sure I could find a similar list a mile long list of things that have happened in downtown KC over the past few decades, only I think KC's would be more impressive than that list .
By the way, KC's downtown is not finished. They have a 30-40 story convention hotel in the works. Cordish has brought back its 30-40 story condo tower at the P&L district that was put on hold during the recession. Streetcars looks to be coming to downtown and there are many other projects in the pipeline.
Do you have any links on that? Im curious to see what the timeline of completion is for that.
Really? An itemized list of every little thing that has happened? You do realize that while KCMO's downtown has probably gone through the most impressive transformation of any downtown in the past ten years that it's not like nothing has happened before that right?
Of any downtown? Now that's going a bit over board. Out of all the cities I've been to the most impressive transformation I've seen in person would be NYC, Chicago, Miami and Philly. Now those cities have had the most transformation when you stack up all the projects together. Even if KC, Indy, St Louis and Omaha were combined as one city NYC alone would have more.
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I mean downtown kcmo has always been pretty active. In the 80's there were so many towers under construction downtown that you couldn't see through all the cranes. It's just that nearly all of the residential projects (and many office) went to the plaza area during that time so downtown KC was booming, but mostly as a 9-5 business center. KC was essentially building two downtowns in the 80's. And in the 70's, the Crown Center area was built just outside of downtown, which is a huge mixed use area. Downtown KC would rival Denver or Minneapolis today if the plaza did not exist, but we can't pretend like the plaza doesn't exist. Most people in KC consider the plaza as an extension of the greater downtown urban core. Even though it's several miles away, the two are very much tied to one another and there is a lot of interaction between them.
Okay, let's put a side the outer neighborhoods (Country Plaza, Soulard etc) for once. Would you go to say that KC would have the most vibrantly active "downtown" than St Louis in the entire state?
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By the way, KC's downtown is not finished. They have a 30-40 story convention hotel in the works. Cordish has brought back its 30-40 story condo tower at the P&L district that was put on hold during the recession. Streetcars looks to be coming to downtown and there are many other projects in the pipeline.
When will the street cars come? It seems that over the years the lightrail proposals keep getting kicked to the curb with disappointment when ever it's on the table for Indy, Columbus, KC and Milwaukee. It's fustrating not to see at least see one of them getting a line built so the other cities could reconsider more seriously.
Me too. I think we are both in the same boat though as both KC and Indy are highly underrated cities nationally and I enjoy keeping them on people's radar. This thread being at the top has to annoy a lot of people that wouldn't give two thoughts to any of these four cities (which is stupid).
I worked in Chicago for a year and people would ask what "Kansas" was like (KC is always called Kansas without the "city" by people from other areas of the country for some bizarre reason) and they would say things like (it's bigger than Indianapolis at least right?) etc.
Indy seemed to be a city they would use to compare to a lot I guess because it's close. I would end up defending KC and Indy.
First I have to explain the whole MO/KS thing and try to get them to stop saying Kansas without the city (which is very annoying if you are from kcmo), then I have to say it's not the size of Peoia etc. The whole process is tiring and never ends. Same deal here in the DC area. People about fall over when I tell them that KC has over 2 million people. It's crazy.
I think Indy is in the same boat and you don't even have to deal with the Kansas stereotypes and confusion.
When I was in Boston just before the Superbowl I heard this talk show host on the radio going on about Indy. He would say things like what is there to do there during the Superbowl go through a corn maze to pick corn and referring the Midwest as flyover country and why people would ever live there. He even brung up the Wizard of OZ in Kansas. The guy sounded like a total prick. This is just proof that you even have 'some' (I didn't say everyone) ignorance even on the East Coast of people who probably never been to the Midwest. However, that perception change when the many Superbowl vistors from over there were shocked to find how nice downtown Indy really was. It just goes to show how clueless this guy was. Well, his beloved Pats lost the Superbowl in Colts territory. What comes around goes around.
Last edited by urbanologist; 06-02-2012 at 12:16 AM..
I'm sure there are NBA fans out there that are more into NBA than MLB. But the fact is that NFL and MLB are by far the top two leagues in this country. I'm not really sure how that can even be debated. It also takes a larger market to support MLB than NBA. There are a lot of pretty small NBA markets, most of which could not support MLB and the teams move around a lot more in the NBA because 500 million dollar baseball stadiums are hard to come by and the top 30 markets where MLB can work are already pretty much taken.
The Royals in KC have sucked for a long time, but the city still averages 20k for weekday games and often 25-35k on weekends for 80 dates. Why? Because there is 2.6 million people within an hour of downtown and KC gets a lot of regional tourists beyond the local area.
Also, KC's MLS soccer team is drawing close to 20k a game and many consider MLS to be closing in to become the number 4 or 5 major league sport possibly overtaking NHL.
I enjoy the NHL and NBA, but I'm just being realistic. Is there a city that has both NBA and MLB that would give up MLB before NBA? I seriously doubt it. MLB brings in far more tourists and more exposure to a city than the NBA and therefore is a more important asset.
Plus 80 dates of potential entertainment vs 40 helps too.
You keep bring up MLB but you leave out the racing fans. Love it or hate it racing is a popular sport. Nascar which I'm not into is popular. There aren't any cities in the country let alone the world that can boast the world's largest crowd into one stadium like IMS. Lucas Oil even though expensive with a retractable roof like Houston's isn't even the city's largest. IMS is highest-capacity stadium-type facility in the world (even larger than the new one recently built in China). Indianapolis Motor Speedway is also older than MLB's Fenway (1912) or Wrigley Field (1914) established in 1909. If we can fill up IMS I'm sure we have the population to easily support a MLB stadium. Indy is pretty much an established Cubs and Indianapolis Indian fan base territory. We are a die hard sports town after all so any team established here could easily get strong support.
You keep bring up MLB but you leave out the racing fans. Love it or hate it racing is a popular sport. Nascar which I'm not into is popular. There aren't any cities in the country let alone the world that can boast the world's largest crowd into one stadium like IMS. Lucas Oil even though expensive with a retractable roof like Houston's isn't even the city's largest. IMS is highest-capacity stadium-type facility in the world (even larger than the new one recently built in China). Indianapolis Motor Speedway is also older than MLB's Fenway (1912) or Wrigley Field (1914) established in 1909. If we can fill up IMS I'm sure we have the population to easily support a MLB stadium. Indy is pretty much an established Cubs and Indianapolis Indian fan base territory. We are a die hard sports town after all so any team established here could easily get strong support.
More like reds, cubs, cards in that order. Indians have long been a reds farm team. Longer than any other by a long shot and still have their diehard faithful.
More like reds, cubs, cards in that order. Indians have long been a reds farm team. Longer than any other by a long shot and still have their diehard faithful.
Here's an interesting map I found. I didn't realize the Cardinals had such a big following. I think it depends on what part of the city you live in.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 5,093,568 times
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What St. Louis does have that none of these other cities have is an NHL team. Sure it's never won the Stanley Cup, but it's had plenty of exciting runs. As far as MLB is concerned, KC's team is nothing to brag about. The Royals have been pretty consistently awful for a long time.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 5,093,568 times
Reputation: 1028
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanologist
Here's an interesting map I found. I didn't realize the Cardinals had such a big following. I think it depends on what part of the city you live in.
The Cardinals have the following they have in part because of how old of a team they are, and the fact that the South didn't have a baseball team until the Houston Astros were founded in 1962, and the Braves became the second baseball team in the south in 1966. The Cardinals were the closest team to much of the south central U.S., so they had a following that once covered most of it. Not to mention, they have minor league teams based in Louisville and Memphis.
Combine that with the Cardinals' abilities to win the World Series, and that's why they had such a large following, and their following was once much greater...Oklahoma and Texas were historically solid Cardinal territory, and it wouldn't surprise me if Royals territory was once Cardinals territory as well.
The Cubs-Cardinals territory has had age-old boundaries...the fence betwen those two has pretty much stayed the same for almost a century.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 5,093,568 times
Reputation: 1028
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo
^ I've biked in all four cities and many other cities across the country. No way KC should be on that list. Any list like that should be taken with a grain of salt as they are generally created by people that have never been to the cities they are listing. That's why I never link to them.
I'd be inclined to agree...I don't think either KC or Omaha are very bike-friendly...both cities are pretty hilly. Indy I would think is definitely the most bike friendly just because of how flat it is compared to the other three cities. St. Louis, KC, and Omaha from what i've heard all far from flat in most of their metro areas.
The Cardinals have the following they have in part because of how old of a team they are, and the fact that the South didn't have a baseball team until the Houston Astros were founded in 1962, and the Braves became the second baseball team in the south in 1966. The Cardinals were the closest team to much of the south central U.S., so they had a following that once covered most of it. Not to mention, they have minor league teams based in Louisville and Memphis.
Combine that with the Cardinals' abilities to win the World Series, and that's why they had such a large following, and their following was once much greater...Oklahoma and Texas were historically solid Cardinal territory, and it wouldn't surprise me if Royals territory was once Cardinals territory as well.
The Cubs-Cardinals territory has had age-old boundaries...the fence betwen those two has pretty much stayed the same for almost a century.
I know that many years ago, the Cardinals would go to small rural towns in places like Arkansas during spring training. Out of the way oddball places. That surely drummed up business.
Go Royals.
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